its getting worse:

http://www.heise.de/newsticker/Kinderporno-Sperren-Provider-sollen-Nutzerzug...

On 18.04.2009, at 17:00, Pascal Mainini wrote:

Hi all

...

Very good article about the "reality" versus "View of Politicians". I think we will have this discussion in Switzerland soon as well.

I also recommend the article from C'T:

http://www.heise.de/ct/Die-Argumente-fuer-Kinderporno-Sperren-laufen-ins-Lee...

Have a nice weekend, kind regards,

Pascal

---

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On 20 Apr 2009, at 21:49, Peter Guhl Listenempfänger wrote:

Well, it depends. While blocking without loggin isn't good for anything at all

In the UK we have -- we are told -- blocking without logging, because the intent of the blocking is to prevent the *accidental* discovery of child abuse images.

Andy

On 21.04.2009, at 09:00, Peter Guhl Listenempfänger wrote:

Andy Davidson schrieb:

...

On 20 Apr 2009, at 21:49, Peter Guhl Listenempfänger wrote:

...

Well, it depends. While blocking without loggin isn't good for anything at all

In the UK we have -- we are told -- blocking without logging, because the intent of the blocking is to prevent the *accidental* discovery of child abuse images.

I must say that I havent's often found real child porn sites by accident. Even looking for "child porn" in normal search engines normally only finds ordinary porn pages only using the keyword "child porn" as a marketing gag. To find the real stuff you still normally have to want to find it.

But the idea to block some ugly stuff is not the worst. The worst thing is that somebody we, the people, didn't have elected and can't control is editing the blocklist (foreign countries and private organisations).

That's exactly the source of the problem! The new planned laws all over Europe basically would give the politicians the ability to block anything, WITHOUT CONTROL. This is not democratic. Personally since the 15 years I use the internet, I have never ever stumbled over a Child Porn site. Child Porn is just abused as a theme to push through filter mechanisms.

a few additional readings on where we are on the EU basis:

http://www.laquadrature.net/en/telecoms-package-the-rapporteurs-fear-of-the-... http://www.laquadrature.net/wiki/Mobilisierung_2Tage_um_am138_und_die_Buerge...

A friend of mine can't do his work in the office because the company is using a blocklist (bought from a specialised company) blocking most technology related web forums as unwanted stuff. He can ask the IT- staff to open the sites but he can only ask for specific websites so it takes months to get them all.

Well, as you can see, they rely on someone external means giving up rights... Now imagine if some UK company would control all over switzerland using such mechanism. They will become the Censorship authoritiy.

Even more the problem is that today every photo of a naked child is automatically banned as child porn. There is an exhibition somewhere in Germany (I guess) showing photos which have been shocking people when they came out. It includes some completely harmless pictures of naked children too - I wonder what kind of attacks they are facing! And nobody looks what happens in countries where it's normal to go around mostly naked. Nobody asks if there sexually motivated violation is a real problem.

The porn isnt the real problem. The probem is the removal of the freedom. And if it passes in EU, it will become very difficult to pass in Switzerland. That's why its important.

The real problem with Child Pornography is the police's unability to bring down such sites. Thats an educational problem and a international collaboration problem. Interesting is the fact that a german news paper who has seen a childporn site from the blocked list, attemted to bring it down by contacting the ISP in USA. It was off the net within hours. This is proof that its possible to do but nobody attempts it.

This is political dynamite in my eyes which will come to switzerland. It will influence our daily life, our daily work.

One rule in germany is that it only applies to ISP with more than 10'000 customers. So splitting up ISP's in entities smaller than 10'000 customers could be a solution ;-).

Andreas Fink

Fink Consulting GmbH Global Networks Schweiz AG BebbiCell AG IceCell ehf

--------------------------------------------------------------- Tel: +41-61-6666330 Fax: +41-61-6666331 Mobile: +41-79-2457333 Address: Clarastrasse 3, 4058 Basel, Switzerland E-Mail: andreas@fink.org www.finkconsulting.com www.global-networks.ch www.bebbicell.ch --------------------------------------------------------------- ICQ: 8239353 MSN: msn1@gni.ch AIM: smsrelay Skype: andreasfink Yahoo: finkconsulting SMS: +41792457333

http://a-fink.blogspot.com/

Salut, Peter,

On Tue, 21 Apr 2009 11:25:55 +0200, Peter Keel wrote:

Stupid pricks. If they legalized possession, all of those people accidently discovering such things would inform the police, thus mabye really doing something useful against ist.

If the site is blocked it has already been discovered. It should be taken down however in order to stop the abuse, IMO.

On the Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 10:15:22PM +0200, Tonnerre Lombard blubbered:

Hallo.

...

Of course the police will be swamped with useless data. Of course crawlers will cause most of the traffic; lots of them beeing spam harvesters hard to track.

If I'm really mean I put an iframe on my website which includes some child pr0n site. This way I can mass produce terror suspects.

Embedd it into an HTML formatted mail and send it to some hapless ooh-clicky users.

Actually, they want to log the accessing of the stop site, so no need to spread child pr0n at all.

CU, Venty