Not really network related, but provisioning-related, which is somehow
network related as well... :-)
What kind of OSS/BSS systems are you using in your companies?
I need these informations for internal use only, without any names. If
you don't want to answer publicly, feel tree to e-mail me.
To show openness in the topic: We use AGIS-OS at gga.ch (access
services) and a self-developed solution at mhs.ch (hosting and access).
Thanks & have a nice day,
Kurz als Erinnerung an alle Mitglieder dieser Mailingliste.
Das Crowdfunding für das unabhängige GSGnein-Komitee
benötigt in den nächsten 24 Stunden noch 4'000 Franken:
Das unabhängige Komitee wird sich gegen das Gesetz einsetzen, ohne von
ausländischen Spielbanken finanziert zu werden.
Helft bitte mit und macht die Kampagne möglich!
Chaos Computer Club Zürich
Sent: Freitag, 20. April 2018 17:18
To: Jean-Pierre Schwickerath <swinog(a)hilotec.net>
Subject: Public Wifi and BÜPF
Dear Mr Schwickerath,
Your post from 9 April to the Swinog mailing-list  was brought to our attention. We would like to provide you with some information about the new surveillance act (BÜPF) and answer your questions about the obligations of providers of public WLAN hotspots. We are copying the list because we believe this information might be of general interest.
 http://lists.swinog.ch/public/swinog/2018-April/006975.html (visited 20 April 2018)
The new BÜPF and its ordinances came into force on 1st March 2018. The ordinance VÜPF contains specific obligations for Telecommunications Service Providers concerning professionally operated public WLAN accesses (Art. 19 para. 2 VÜPF). In your post, you refer to information published by Digitale Gesellschaft about Public WLAN . The information given in „Merkblatt Public-WLAN”, dated 16th October 2017, is outdated.
 https://www.digitale-gesellschaft.ch/publicwlan/ (visited 20 April 2018)
For information about the new law and its ordinances, please visit our website https://www.li.admin.ch/de/themen/das-neue-buepf which is available in German, French and Italian. Some information is also available in Romansh or English. There you can find the complete legal basis together with the explanatory reports.
On our website we also provide a memo about professionally operated public WLAN accesses “Merkblatt WLAN”:
in German: https://www.li.admin.ch/sites/default/files/2018-02/Merkblatt%20WLAN.pdf
in French: https://www.li.admin.ch/sites/default/files/2018-04/Notice%20%C2%ABWLAN%C2%…
in Italian: https://www.li.admin.ch/sites/default/files/2018-04/Promemoria%20%C2%ABWLAN…
To respond to your questions:
>> If I understand the information on the above page correctly, he doesn't need to identify his users, so he won't (and won't store any logs) and
>> as a consequence he will not have any information to be stored for 6 months for the büpf.
>> Is that so?
The obligation to identify the end users of professionally operated public WLAN accesses with appropriate means lies with the Telecommunications Service Provider (TSP). According to your short description, the company operating the access point does not seem to qualify as Telecommunications Service Provider. However, if you would like a thorough assessment, we invite you to contact us.
Please note that the obligation to identify WLAN end users is not automatically associated with data retention of all secondary data for 6 months, which is another obligation that only lies with TSP that have full surveillance obligations.
>> The other question that comes to my mind: if the customer provides a captive portal to have users acknowledge a "Hausordnung" / code of
>> conduct, then the APs will "store" which MAC address has checked the box. Does that make his subject to the Büpf?
According to your description, your customer operates the wireless access point and shares his Internet access with the public. This activity falls within the BÜPF category „persons who make their access to a public telecommunications network available to third parties“ (Article 2 letter e BÜPF), no matter if a captive portal is provided or not. This category of persons only has passive obligations under the BÜPF, does not need to prepare anything and does not need to store data based on the BÜPF.
Do not hesitate to contact us for further information.
Post and Telecommunications Surveillance Service
Provider Management Team
Fellerstrasse 15, 3003 Bern
Tel. +41 58 463 34 29
some of you might have already heard that a few days ago, the RIPE NCC
has run out of address space from 185/8, the last /8 entirely allocated
to it. This means that now all the allocations will come from address
space recovered by IANA and distributed to the RIRs over the course of
the last years.
There's still time to get IPv4, but the time is also coming for IPv6... :)
You can find more here:
--- m.hertzog(a)mhs.ch wrote:
From: Matthias Hertzog <m.hertzog(a)mhs.ch>
Not really network related, but provisioning-related, which
is somehow network related as well... :-)
What kind of OSS/BSS systems are you using in your companies?
What size of network are you talking about? Is it an ISP
network? Some tools are fine for smaller and nearly
non-changing networks, but are terrible for scaling to larger
and quickly changing networks.
swinog mailing list
Call for Presentations European Peering Forum 13 (EPF13)
AMS-IX, DE-CIX, LINX, Netnod are happy to host the 13rd European
Peering Forum (EPF) in Athens, Greece from the 17th - 19th
September 2018. The event will welcome up to 300 peering managers and
coordinators from networks connected to the host Internet exchanges.
Besides an interesting topical agenda, the three-day event
accommodates room for attendees to meet on a one-to-one basis to
discuss bilateral peering business opportunities.
The programme committee will be looking for presentations and
lightning talks related to peering and technical topics of
interconnection. Your presentation should address
* Interconnection Automation
* Regional Peering
* Interconnection / Peering Internet Governance and Regulatory Topics
* Economic and Product Trends
* Peering / interconnection strategies
* Interesting findings about peering / interconnection
* 400GE and beyond
Presentations must be of a non-commercial nature. Product or
marketing heavy talks are strongly discouraged.
Submissions of presentations should be made to the programme
committee <epf-pc(a)peering-forum.eu>. Please include:
* Author's name and e-mail
* Presentation title
* Slides (if available)
* Time requested
Presentation Abstract Deadline 16/07/2018 12:00 UTC
Final Selection of Speakers 27/07/2018
Presentation Slides Submission Deadline 03/09/2018 12:00 UTC
More information about the event and other activities around EPF13
may be found at
Viele Grüße / meilleures salutations / migliori saluti
mobile: +49 172 2650958
Dear SwiNOG supporter,
Our Agenda is filling up but there are still open slots. Please let us know if you would like to contribute for a speech or a lightning Talk (5min).
NOTE: we have a slight earlier date for the surprise. Please register until Sunday 6th.
If you register until Sunday 06.05.2018 there will be a special surprise for you :-)
Call for Paper!!
Please send your proposal to swinog-core(a)swinog.ch
The 33rd meeting of the Swiss Network Operators Group (SwiNOG) will be held in Berne on top of the Gurten on Thursday May 24th 2018.
Important Dates for SwiNOG#33
01.03.2018 Call for Papers
01.03.2018 Registration opens
30.04.2018 Call for Papers closing
01.05.2018 Publication of the preliminary Agenda
11.05.2018 Final publication of agenda
19.05.2018 Registration closes
22.05.2018 Deadline for all slides
24.05.2018 Meeting day
Topics for Presentations/Talks
The number and length of presentations per session is not fixed, although due to time constraints we would prefer the length of the presentations to be between 5 to 45 minutes.
Here is a non-exhaustive list of typical SwiNOG meeting topics:
- Security - DDOS Mitigation - AntiSpam
- Open Source tools
- International view of the internet (incidents, outages, measurements)
- Server applications (DNS, Web, etc.)
- Legal issues (B‹PF, etc.)
- Telecommunication politics (Net Neutrality, Incumbent monopoly, etc.)
-> PLEASE feel free to talk to us about any kind of topic and collaboration!!!
You can always start a discussion on the list - I'm sure people join in.
Language of Slides and Talks
The whole day will be held in English, therefore we kindly ask you to produce your presentation in English.
All submissions must have a strong technical bias and must not be solely promotional for your employer.
Please remember that your presentations should be suitable for a target audience of technicians from varied backgrounds, working for companies whose sizes may vary considerably.
To submit a proposal for a presentation, we request that you provide the following information to <swinog-core at swinog.ch>:
* the name of the presenter (and if applicable your affiliation)
* a working email-address
* the name and number of the topic which will contain the presentation
* the title of the presentation
* its expected length (in minutes)
* a short abstract of the presentation (so we know what it is about)
We also welcome suggestions for specific presentations which you feel would be valuable to the SwiNOG community.
Please be aware that your presentation will be published on the SwiNOG website after the event. We can publish modified slides if requested - it might be that some confidential data will be presented by you which are not intended for publication on the internet.
SwiNOG Core Team
General Information (SwiNOG Community)
The Swiss Network Operators Group (SwiNOG) is an informal group of people who are concerned with engineering and operation of the Swiss Internet.
SwiNOG exists to enhance the quality of Internet services available in Switzerland. It does this by fostering the free exchange of technical ideas and information between different companies and organisations.
SwiNOG is a community for professionals who are operating, designing or researching the Internet. It provides a technical forum where those working on, with and for the Internet can come together to solve problems with every aspect of their (net)work.
The meeting is designed to provide an opportunity for the exchange of information among network operators, engineers, researchers and other professionals close to the network community.
More information about SwiNOG can be found at http://www.swinog.ch , Facebook, Xing,
Information about the meeting will be published at http://www.swinog.ch/meetings/swinog33
General Information (SwiNOG Organisation)
The SwiNOG Organisation Association is a non-profit association under article 60 and further of the swiss civil law. It manages the SwiNOG community resources (domain, web, mailing-lists, etc..) and organises SwiNOG meetings.
Usually I have no problems identifying DNSSEC issues, but I don't get
Our two main caching DNS Servers run bind 9.11.2-P1, after flushing
the cache and even restarting still see an issue with this domain:
09-Apr-2018 09:28:25.934 no valid RRSIG resolving 'ns2.bncr.fi.cr/DS/IN': 188.8.131.52#53
09-Apr-2018 09:28:26.111 no valid RRSIG resolving 'ns2.bncr.fi.cr/DS/IN': 184.108.40.206#53
09-Apr-2018 09:28:26.111 no valid DS resolving 'ns2.bncr.fi.cr/AAAA/IN': 220.127.116.11#53
09-Apr-2018 09:28:26.111 no valid DS resolving 'ns2.bncr.fi.cr/A/IN': 18.104.22.168#53
09-Apr-2018 09:28:26.286 broken trust chain resolving 'ns2.bncr.fi.cr/A/IN': 22.214.171.124#53
https://en.internet.nl/site/www.bncr.fi.cr/199938/ => DNSSEC Valid
http://dnsviz.net/d/www.bncr.fi.cr/dnssec/ => No issues
Doing the same test via a 9.10.3-P4-Debian with Validation enabled,
Retrieving any +dnssec with dig shows there is an RRSIG for those
Does anyone have an idea what the cause of this issue could be?
Maybe an algo which Bind 9.10 understands (or does not and therefore
skipps testing) but 9.11 not? The log of bind 9.10 looks like the
validation did succeed thou...
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I'd like to ask if anyone can confirm that the information published on
https://www.digitale-gesellschaft.ch/publicwlan/ is accurate in regards
to being subject to "Überwachungspflichten gemäss BÜPF".
We have been asked by a customer to sell him a Wifi-Installation for
his café. We are going to sell him the hardware and do the one time
installation. Afterwards the customer is running the infrastructure
himself, he might ask us for help for firmware upgrades and similar
tasks but we are not going to run that Wifi as a service or do any
If I understand the information on the above page correctly, he doesn't
need to identify his users, so he won't (and won't store any logs) and
as a consequence he will not have any information to be stored for 6
months for the büpf.
Is that so?
The other question that comes to my mind: if the customer provides a
captive portal to have users acknowledge a "Hausordnung" / code of
conduct, then the APs will "store" which MAC address has checked the
box. Does that make his subject to the Büpf?
Thank you very much for your input on this topic.
HILOTEC Engineering + Consulting AG - Langnau im Emmental
IT für KMUs: Netzwerke, Server, PCs, Linux, Telefonanlagen,
VOIP, Hosting, Datenbanken, Entwicklung, WLAN, Cloud, Firewalls
Tel: +41 34 408 01 00 - https://www.hilotec.com/