11 Feb
2020
11 Feb
'20
5:46 p.m.
Hi everyone,
I created a telegram group for Swinog. It is meant to be a place to
have discussions that are more informal than what you could have on the
mailing list or simply for something more interactive.
The link to join is https://t.me/SWINOG
I've created a similar group for ITNOG almost two years ago and it
proved to be a good initiative, now with about 450 members and with
daily discussion on different topics. Maybe we can make it happen also
for Swinog.
Keep in mind this is just a personal initiative and not an official one
from Swinog. If it works out and it's positive, we'll see if we can
make it more official.
If you have any question or comment, please feel free to approach me.
Ciao!
--
Massimiliano Stucchi
MS16801-RIPE
Twitter/Telegram: @stucchimax
13 Feb
13 Feb
2:46 a.m.
why telegram and not signal or threema?
----- Am 11. Feb 2020 um 17:46 schrieb Massimiliano Stucchi max(a)stucchi.ch:
Hi everyone,
I created a telegram group for Swinog. It is meant to be a place to
have discussions that are more informal than what you could have on the
mailing list or simply for something more interactive.
The link to join is https://t.me/SWINOG
I've created a similar group for ITNOG almost two years ago and it
proved to be a good initiative, now with about 450 members and with
daily discussion on different topics. Maybe we can make it happen also
for Swinog.
Keep in mind this is just a personal initiative and not an official one
from Swinog. If it works out and it's positive, we'll see if we can
make it more official.
If you have any question or comment, please feel free to approach me.
Ciao!
--
Massimiliano Stucchi
MS16801-RIPE
Twitter/Telegram: @stucchimax
_______________________________________________
swinog mailing list
swinog(a)lists.swinog.ch
http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
8:58 p.m.
Ralph Krämer writes:
why telegram and not signal or threema?
Why not all! And fivema and sixma as well!!
Seriously, what was wrong with irc.swinog.ch?
Is IRC considered a boomer thing that millenials won't touch?
Just curious - I'm happy to follow everyone everywhere, but not
everybody does, and I worry about fragmenting the community.
Cheers,
--
Simon.
----- Am 11. Feb 2020 um 17:46 schrieb Massimiliano
Stucchi max(a)stucchi.ch:
> Hi everyone,
>
> I created a telegram group for Swinog. It is meant to be a place to
> have discussions that are more informal than what you could have on the
> mailing list or simply for something more interactive.
>
> The link to join is https://t.me/SWINOG
>
> I've created a similar group for ITNOG almost two years ago and it
> proved to be a good initiative, now with about 450 members and with
> daily discussion on different topics. Maybe we can make it happen also
> for Swinog.
>
> Keep in mind this is just a personal initiative and not an official one
> from Swinog. If it works out and it's positive, we'll see if we can
> make it more official.
>
> If you have any question or comment, please feel free to approach me.
>
> Ciao!
> --
> Massimiliano Stucchi
> MS16801-RIPE
> Twitter/Telegram: @stucchimax
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> swinog mailing list
> swinog(a)lists.swinog.ch
> http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
_______________________________________________
swinog mailing list
swinog(a)lists.swinog.ch
http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
9:24 p.m.
Hello .*,
I was waiting for the chat system discussion to start,
it's good that we IT communities are so predictable :-).
My 4.99 rounded Rappen:
1) I fully understand Massimiliano's approach to "just do it" and not to
think too much about the medium
2) IRC has the "disconnect/no history issue"
3) If I was to have an opinion on a chat system (hehe) I'd say we should
go with matrix, as it is IRC with
history+images+end-to-end-encryption,
however I might not have an opinion here
4) I'm waiting for the person pointing out XMPP is the same principle
5) There is matterbridge [0] which we heavily use at ungleich, which can
bridge almost anything to anything. In case we want to bridge irc to
telegram to matrix to xmpp to slack and whatsapp, it's an easy thing
to do.
Simon, you made my evening!
Best regards,
Nico
[0] https://github.com/42wim/matterbridge
p.s.: This email was written in emacs.
pps: https://xkcd.com/1782/
Simon Leinen <simon.leinen(a)switch.ch> writes:
Ralph Krämer writes:
--
Modern, affordable, Swiss Virtual Machines. Visit www.datacenterlight.ch
why telegram and not signal or threema?
Why not all! And fivema and sixma as well!!
Seriously, what was wrong with irc.swinog.ch?
Is IRC considered a boomer thing that millenials won't touch?
Just curious - I'm happy to follow everyone everywhere, but not
everybody does, and I worry about fragmenting the community.
Cheers, 
9:44 p.m.
Is there an IOS/Apple app for IRC that acts like an messenger app? (eg persistant
connection)?
gruss
-steven
Am 13.02.2020 um 21:35 schrieb Nico Schottelius
<nico.schottelius(a)ungleich.ch>ch>:
Hello .*,
I was waiting for the chat system discussion to start,
it's good that we IT communities are so predictable :-).
My 4.99 rounded Rappen:
1) I fully understand Massimiliano's approach to "just do it" and not to
think too much about the medium
2) IRC has the "disconnect/no history issue"
3) If I was to have an opinion on a chat system (hehe) I'd say we should
go with matrix, as it is IRC with
history+images+end-to-end-encryption,
however I might not have an opinion here
4) I'm waiting for the person pointing out XMPP is the same principle
5) There is matterbridge [0] which we heavily use at ungleich, which can
bridge almost anything to anything. In case we want to bridge irc to
telegram to matrix to xmpp to slack and whatsapp, it's an easy thing
to do.
Simon, you made my evening!
Best regards,
Nico
[0] https://github.com/42wim/matterbridge
p.s.: This email was written in emacs.
pps: https://xkcd.com/1782/
Simon Leinen <simon.leinen(a)switch.ch> writes:
Ralph Krämer writes:
--
Modern, affordable, Swiss Virtual Machines. Visit www.datacenterlight.ch
_______________________________________________
swinog mailing list
swinog(a)lists.swinog.ch
http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog why telegram and not signal or threema?
Why not all! And fivema and sixma as well!!
Seriously, what was wrong with irc.swinog.ch?
Is IRC considered a boomer thing that millenials won't touch?
Just curious - I'm happy to follow everyone everywhere, but not
everybody does, and I worry about fragmenting the community.
Cheers, 
11:46 p.m.
Is there an IOS/Apple app for IRC that acts like an
messenger app? (eg
persistant connection)?
There is, but it's probably not quite what you were expecting: ZNC
Pair that with a regular IRC client and you're good to go.
Suggestion: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/palaver-irc/id538073623
And yes, this is exactly what you'd have been doing when you wanted a
persistent IRC connection on *any* system: Use an IRC bouncer. Even if that
bouncer is just a screen or a tmux session on a shell server.
11:03 p.m.
Hi,
On 13/02/2020 21:24, Nico Schottelius wrote:
1) I fully understand Massimiliano's approach to
"just do it" and not to
think too much about the medium
I couldn't have said it better.
Everyone has his/her own favourite messaging app/system, and
unfortunately we can't make everyone happy.
I picked telegram because that's where I already participate in a series
of other groups ranging from a handful of people up to a couple of them
with around a thousand people, and it works. It has its ups and downs,
but in general it does its job.
Ciao!
--
Massimiliano Stucchi
MS16801-RIPE
Twitter/Telegram: @stucchimax
17 Feb
17 Feb
1:36 p.m.
Hi,
Ralph Krämer schrieb am Thu, Feb 13, 2020 at 02:46:58AM +0100:
why telegram and not signal or threema?
Now that's easy to answer:
* Signal refuses connections from forked clients like LibreSignal,
i.e. might be "open source", but is not "open".
* Threema is no free software (not even open source) and hence can't
be trusted anyway.
But Telegram has issues, too:
* The server-side code is not open source.
* End to end is not default and also cumbersome, because it's device
to device, not user to user.
Huge matrix (sic!) comparing features and anti-features of messengers:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-UlA4-tslROBDS9IqHalWVztqZo7uxlCeKP…
(Yes, someone is comparing — amongst others — privacy features of
messengers and hosts it at Google. Via
https://mstdn.io/@jomo/102931218895374444)
Regards, Axel
--
/~\ Plain Text Ribbon Campaign | Axel Beckert
\ / Say No to HTML in E-Mail and News | abe(a)deuxchevaux.org (Mail)
X See http://arc.pasp.de/ | abe(a)noone.org (Mail+Jabber)
/ \ I love long mails: http://email.is-not-s.ms/ | http://abe.noone.org/ (Web)
13 Feb
13 Feb
10:24 p.m.
You should not have created this group when you censor it. You are behaving like a
childish dictator.
Am 11.02.2020 um 18:52 schrieb Massimiliano Stucchi
<max(a)stucchi.ch>ch>:
Hi everyone,
I created a telegram group for Swinog. It is meant to be a place to
have discussions that are more informal than what you could have on the
mailing list or simply for something more interactive.
The link to join is https://t.me/SWINOG
I've created a similar group for ITNOG almost two years ago and it
proved to be a good initiative, now with about 450 members and with
daily discussion on different topics. Maybe we can make it happen also
for Swinog.
Keep in mind this is just a personal initiative and not an official one
from Swinog. If it works out and it's positive, we'll see if we can
make it more official.
If you have any question or comment, please feel free to approach me.
Ciao!
--
Massimiliano Stucchi
MS16801-RIPE
Twitter/Telegram: @stucchimax
_______________________________________________
swinog mailing list
swinog(a)lists.swinog.ch
http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
14 Feb
14 Feb
6:43 a.m.
Hello,
I usually remain silent and read interesting threads but on this
topic I would like to express a few things.
I'm part of those to conceive Internet concepts such as
distributed and federated protocols as the core values of the
system.
I also think it has become very important to fight for data ownership
design concepts and interoperability, key to Internet, but seriously
in danger.
In these perspectives, I can only support free software projects,
and encourage decentralized and distributed schemes.
I am not surprised to see people arguing for either Telegram,
Signal, you-name-it. This is the failure of messaging apps to be
interoperable.
Early protocols such as IRC, and best example, SMTP was meant with
interop goal first.
XMPP is good protocol set to try to provide a generic messaging
system. Lots of clients and servers exists and each server can
interconnect, and each client can connect to any server they can
register with.
Matrix is very interesting, while I think, as a modern comm protocol
it should require e2ee by default.
I won't argue for a specific project or protocol, but I would like
to express that I wish people favor interop, decentralized, and
help supporting such Internet strengh.
--
|_|0|_| julien Mabillard
|_|_|0| OpenPGP 1E47 513E 8B00 8BC5 E874 23E4 54A4 32FB 260A 2D41
|0|0|0| xmpp/omemo: jma(a)tls.mbuf.net
7:55 a.m.
Whow, just whow
After years of this mailing list slowly rotting away, someone takes an
approach and tries to give back life to the group.
And now suddenly, people are crawling from beneath their rocks and have
much better ideas, on how this could have been done all along.
Crawl back under your rock, please. You had all the time in the world
to do something and didn't.
I applaud Max for his initiative.
Cheers,
Viktor
8:43 a.m.
... and he immediately started censoring it...
Am 14.02.2020 um 09:00 schrieb Viktor Steinmann
<stony(a)stony.com>om>:
Whow, just whow
After years of this mailing list slowly rotting away, someone takes an approach and tries
to give back life to the group.
And now suddenly, people are crawling from beneath their rocks and have much better
ideas, on how this could have been done all along.
Crawl back under your rock, please. You had all the time in the world to do something
and didn't.
I applaud Max for his initiative.
Cheers,
Viktor
_______________________________________________
swinog mailing list
swinog(a)lists.swinog.ch
http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
16 Feb
16 Feb
3:55 p.m.
New subject: NEW: Matrix group! Let 1000 flowers bloom [was: Re: Telegram group]
jma writes:
I usually remain silent and read interesting threads
but on this
topic I would like to express a few things.
Sincere thanks from me for your contribution.
I'm part of those to conceive Internet concepts
such as distributed
and federated protocols as the core values of the system. [...]
For what it's worth: I violently agree with your analysis and your
values/preferences (mostly). And certainly that such values matter.
I won't argue for a specific project or protocol,
but I would like to
express that I wish people favor interop, decentralized, and help
supporting such Internet strengh.
Well said. So in the spirit of experimentation ("just do it"), I have
created a group on Matrix:
#swinog:swinot.ch
https://matrix.to/#/!emivqjAwXhILUrtwFM:swinot.ch?via=swinot.ch&via=mat…
I also started a small VM and installed a Matrix "homeserver" and Web UI
on it. For now it's running under
matrix.swinot.ch (server)
https://riot.swinot.ch (Web UI, no good way to get accounts yet)
Sorry for the stupid domain name! I'll happily move everything to
swinog.ch (and save a few Francs by not renewing the domain name :-)
Didn't want to bother the swinog.ch DNS admins over the weekend...
Further reading for background/motivation:
https://swinot.ch/post-irc/
--
Simon.
17 Feb
17 Feb
7:27 a.m.
New subject: NEW: Matrix group! Let 1000 flowers bloom [was: Re: Telegram group]
:: #swinog:swinot.ch
::
:: https://matrix.to/#/!emivqjAwXhILUrtwFM:swinot.ch?via=swinot.ch&via=mat…
::
:: matrix.swinot.ch (server)
:: https://riot.swinot.ch (Web UI, no good way to get accounts yet)
Well done :)
I'll connect today.
BTW, let me add that I did not disagree with initiatives such as
Telegram group, in the way that trying to find a different sharing
place that can encourage community sharing to improve is always
welcome, but as swinog used to build their own solutions with legitimate
goals, I am willing to support such continuation.
Matrix is a very promising platform for anyone to build their own
tools to interact with. It also means that swinog matrix node can
interconnect with other matrix nodes, federation is anyway what model
swinog belongs to if I'm not wrong. :)
--
|_|0|_| julien Mabillard
|_|_|0| OpenPGP 1E47 513E 8B00 8BC5 E874 23E4 54A4 32FB 260A 2D41
|0|0|0| xmpp/omemo: jma(a)tls.mbuf.net
1080
days inactive
1086
days old
13 comments
10 participants
participants (10)
-
Axel Beckert -
Gregor Riepl -
jma -
Marc Balmer -
Massimiliano Stucchi -
Nico Schottelius -
Ralph Krämer -
Simon Leinen -
Steven Glogger -
Viktor Steinmann