Hi everyone,
I created a telegram group for Swinog. It is meant to be a place to have discussions that are more informal than what you could have on the mailing list or simply for something more interactive.
The link to join is https://t.me/SWINOG
I've created a similar group for ITNOG almost two years ago and it proved to be a good initiative, now with about 450 members and with daily discussion on different topics. Maybe we can make it happen also for Swinog.
Keep in mind this is just a personal initiative and not an official one from Swinog. If it works out and it's positive, we'll see if we can make it more official.
If you have any question or comment, please feel free to approach me.
Ciao!
why telegram and not signal or threema?
----- Am 11. Feb 2020 um 17:46 schrieb Massimiliano Stucchi max@stucchi.ch:
Hi everyone,
I created a telegram group for Swinog. It is meant to be a place to have discussions that are more informal than what you could have on the mailing list or simply for something more interactive.
The link to join is https://t.me/SWINOG
I've created a similar group for ITNOG almost two years ago and it proved to be a good initiative, now with about 450 members and with daily discussion on different topics. Maybe we can make it happen also for Swinog.
Keep in mind this is just a personal initiative and not an official one from Swinog. If it works out and it's positive, we'll see if we can make it more official.
If you have any question or comment, please feel free to approach me.
Ciao!
Massimiliano Stucchi MS16801-RIPE Twitter/Telegram: @stucchimax
swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
Ralph Krämer writes:
why telegram and not signal or threema?
Why not all! And fivema and sixma as well!!
Seriously, what was wrong with irc.swinog.ch?
Is IRC considered a boomer thing that millenials won't touch?
Just curious - I'm happy to follow everyone everywhere, but not everybody does, and I worry about fragmenting the community.
Cheers,
Hello .*,
I was waiting for the chat system discussion to start, it's good that we IT communities are so predictable :-).
My 4.99 rounded Rappen:
1) I fully understand Massimiliano's approach to "just do it" and not to think too much about the medium 2) IRC has the "disconnect/no history issue" 3) If I was to have an opinion on a chat system (hehe) I'd say we should go with matrix, as it is IRC with history+images+end-to-end-encryption, however I might not have an opinion here 4) I'm waiting for the person pointing out XMPP is the same principle 5) There is matterbridge [0] which we heavily use at ungleich, which can bridge almost anything to anything. In case we want to bridge irc to telegram to matrix to xmpp to slack and whatsapp, it's an easy thing to do.
Simon, you made my evening!
Best regards,
Nico
[0] https://github.com/42wim/matterbridge
p.s.: This email was written in emacs. pps: https://xkcd.com/1782/
Simon Leinen simon.leinen@switch.ch writes:
Ralph Krämer writes:
why telegram and not signal or threema?
Why not all! And fivema and sixma as well!!
Seriously, what was wrong with irc.swinog.ch?
Is IRC considered a boomer thing that millenials won't touch?
Just curious - I'm happy to follow everyone everywhere, but not everybody does, and I worry about fragmenting the community.
Cheers,
-- Modern, affordable, Swiss Virtual Machines. Visit www.datacenterlight.ch
Is there an IOS/Apple app for IRC that acts like an messenger app? (eg persistant connection)?
gruss
-steven
Am 13.02.2020 um 21:35 schrieb Nico Schottelius nico.schottelius@ungleich.ch:
Hello .*,
I was waiting for the chat system discussion to start, it's good that we IT communities are so predictable :-).
My 4.99 rounded Rappen:
- I fully understand Massimiliano's approach to "just do it" and not to
think too much about the medium 2) IRC has the "disconnect/no history issue" 3) If I was to have an opinion on a chat system (hehe) I'd say we should go with matrix, as it is IRC with history+images+end-to-end-encryption, however I might not have an opinion here 4) I'm waiting for the person pointing out XMPP is the same principle 5) There is matterbridge [0] which we heavily use at ungleich, which can bridge almost anything to anything. In case we want to bridge irc to telegram to matrix to xmpp to slack and whatsapp, it's an easy thing to do.
Simon, you made my evening!
Best regards,
Nico
[0] https://github.com/42wim/matterbridge
p.s.: This email was written in emacs. pps: https://xkcd.com/1782/
Simon Leinen simon.leinen@switch.ch writes:
Ralph Krämer writes:
why telegram and not signal or threema?
Why not all! And fivema and sixma as well!!
Seriously, what was wrong with irc.swinog.ch?
Is IRC considered a boomer thing that millenials won't touch?
Just curious - I'm happy to follow everyone everywhere, but not everybody does, and I worry about fragmenting the community.
Cheers,
-- Modern, affordable, Swiss Virtual Machines. Visit www.datacenterlight.ch
swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
Is there an IOS/Apple app for IRC that acts like an messenger app? (eg persistant connection)?
There is, but it's probably not quite what you were expecting: ZNC
Pair that with a regular IRC client and you're good to go. Suggestion: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/palaver-irc/id538073623
And yes, this is exactly what you'd have been doing when you wanted a persistent IRC connection on *any* system: Use an IRC bouncer. Even if that bouncer is just a screen or a tmux session on a shell server.
Hi,
On 13/02/2020 21:24, Nico Schottelius wrote:
- I fully understand Massimiliano's approach to "just do it" and not to think too much about the medium
I couldn't have said it better.
Everyone has his/her own favourite messaging app/system, and unfortunately we can't make everyone happy.
I picked telegram because that's where I already participate in a series of other groups ranging from a handful of people up to a couple of them with around a thousand people, and it works. It has its ups and downs, but in general it does its job.
Ciao!
Hi,
Ralph Krämer schrieb am Thu, Feb 13, 2020 at 02:46:58AM +0100:
why telegram and not signal or threema?
Now that's easy to answer:
* Signal refuses connections from forked clients like LibreSignal, i.e. might be "open source", but is not "open".
* Threema is no free software (not even open source) and hence can't be trusted anyway.
But Telegram has issues, too:
* The server-side code is not open source.
* End to end is not default and also cumbersome, because it's device to device, not user to user.
Huge matrix (sic!) comparing features and anti-features of messengers:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-UlA4-tslROBDS9IqHalWVztqZo7uxlCeKPQ... (Yes, someone is comparing — amongst others — privacy features of messengers and hosts it at Google. Via https://mstdn.io/@jomo/102931218895374444)
Regards, Axel
You should not have created this group when you censor it. You are behaving like a childish dictator.
Am 11.02.2020 um 18:52 schrieb Massimiliano Stucchi max@stucchi.ch:
Hi everyone,
I created a telegram group for Swinog. It is meant to be a place to have discussions that are more informal than what you could have on the mailing list or simply for something more interactive.
The link to join is https://t.me/SWINOG
I've created a similar group for ITNOG almost two years ago and it proved to be a good initiative, now with about 450 members and with daily discussion on different topics. Maybe we can make it happen also for Swinog.
Keep in mind this is just a personal initiative and not an official one from Swinog. If it works out and it's positive, we'll see if we can make it more official.
If you have any question or comment, please feel free to approach me.
Ciao!
Massimiliano Stucchi MS16801-RIPE Twitter/Telegram: @stucchimax
swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
Hello, I usually remain silent and read interesting threads but on this topic I would like to express a few things.
I'm part of those to conceive Internet concepts such as distributed and federated protocols as the core values of the system.
I also think it has become very important to fight for data ownership design concepts and interoperability, key to Internet, but seriously in danger.
In these perspectives, I can only support free software projects, and encourage decentralized and distributed schemes.
I am not surprised to see people arguing for either Telegram, Signal, you-name-it. This is the failure of messaging apps to be interoperable.
Early protocols such as IRC, and best example, SMTP was meant with interop goal first.
XMPP is good protocol set to try to provide a generic messaging system. Lots of clients and servers exists and each server can interconnect, and each client can connect to any server they can register with.
Matrix is very interesting, while I think, as a modern comm protocol it should require e2ee by default.
I won't argue for a specific project or protocol, but I would like to express that I wish people favor interop, decentralized, and help supporting such Internet strengh.
Whow, just whow
After years of this mailing list slowly rotting away, someone takes an approach and tries to give back life to the group.
And now suddenly, people are crawling from beneath their rocks and have much better ideas, on how this could have been done all along.
Crawl back under your rock, please. You had all the time in the world to do something and didn't.
I applaud Max for his initiative.
Cheers,
Viktor
... and he immediately started censoring it...
Am 14.02.2020 um 09:00 schrieb Viktor Steinmann stony@stony.com:
Whow, just whow
After years of this mailing list slowly rotting away, someone takes an approach and tries to give back life to the group.
And now suddenly, people are crawling from beneath their rocks and have much better ideas, on how this could have been done all along.
Crawl back under your rock, please. You had all the time in the world to do something and didn't.
I applaud Max for his initiative.
Cheers,
Viktor
swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
jma writes:
I usually remain silent and read interesting threads but on this topic I would like to express a few things.
Sincere thanks from me for your contribution.
I'm part of those to conceive Internet concepts such as distributed and federated protocols as the core values of the system. [...]
For what it's worth: I violently agree with your analysis and your values/preferences (mostly). And certainly that such values matter.
I won't argue for a specific project or protocol, but I would like to express that I wish people favor interop, decentralized, and help supporting such Internet strengh.
Well said. So in the spirit of experimentation ("just do it"), I have created a group on Matrix:
#swinog:swinot.ch
https://matrix.to/#/!emivqjAwXhILUrtwFM:swinot.ch?via=swinot.ch&via=matr...
I also started a small VM and installed a Matrix "homeserver" and Web UI on it. For now it's running under
matrix.swinot.ch (server) https://riot.swinot.ch (Web UI, no good way to get accounts yet)
Sorry for the stupid domain name! I'll happily move everything to swinog.ch (and save a few Francs by not renewing the domain name :-) Didn't want to bother the swinog.ch DNS admins over the weekend...
Further reading for background/motivation:
:: #swinog:swinot.ch :: :: https://matrix.to/#/!emivqjAwXhILUrtwFM:swinot.ch?via=swinot.ch&via=matr... :: :: matrix.swinot.ch (server) :: https://riot.swinot.ch (Web UI, no good way to get accounts yet)
Well done :) I'll connect today.
BTW, let me add that I did not disagree with initiatives such as Telegram group, in the way that trying to find a different sharing place that can encourage community sharing to improve is always welcome, but as swinog used to build their own solutions with legitimate goals, I am willing to support such continuation.
Matrix is a very promising platform for anyone to build their own tools to interact with. It also means that swinog matrix node can interconnect with other matrix nodes, federation is anyway what model swinog belongs to if I'm not wrong. :)
-
Axel Beckert -
Gregor Riepl -
jma -
Marc Balmer -
Massimiliano Stucchi -
Nico Schottelius -
Ralph Krämer -
Simon Leinen -
Steven Glogger -
Viktor Steinmann