Hi all,
This came up recently when I was talking with some colleagues about residential connections... You know, regular stuff people discuss over a beer or two... We all know Init7 is recognized as The Provider for power users and no one argues with that. But also everyone knows we have mainstream ones kinda-supporting IPv6. Swisscom gives public IPv4 and IPv6 via 6rd tunnel. Similar with Sunrise, but sometimes you end up on CG-NAT. Salt is only CG-NAT, at least according to the anecdotal proofs.
Power users wouldn't be power if they did not try stuff. So I took my Sunrise FTTH over native fiber (EWZ in my case, not Swisscom BBCS) and it turns out I get public IPv4 from DHCP (expected) as well as IPv6 /56 prefix via DHCPv6 (not expected at all). The last one is extremely surprising - the status quo was that you can get IPv6 with Sunrise via 6rd, but DHCPv6 is a novelty. Or is it not?
What is the state in 2024 ? Who does IPv6 ? Who does it natively ?
I am surprised there is no single google result about Sunrise doing DHCPv6 so I wonder what we don't know about other ISPs.
Cheers and have a nice day, Mat
Hello,
Last time I checked, on a basic Sunrise CATV (UPC) you did not have native public v4 (it's CGNAT) however a public v6 /64 that you can even run Internet services on -- if you configure the router. There is v6 DHCP.
Or you could revert to one public v4 ("modem mode") and no v6 If you asked politely.
Thanks for the flowers re power users, appreciated!
Re regular users: we actually have a product called Easy7, which supports CGNAT for IPv4, but also native IPv6 enabled by default with DHCPv6-PD. It assigns a /56 to each user.
The Easy7 service comes with an ACS controlled Fritzbox 5530. We don‘t touch the password though, if a customer wants to configure things on the Fritzbox such as SIP lines or IPv6 to hosted services, it‘s possible. If it breaks our support can simply revert the config to Easy7’s default by some ACS commands.
https://www.init7.net/en/internet/easy7/
-- Fredy Künzler
Init7 (Switzerland) Ltd. Technoparkstrasse 5 CH-8406 Winterthur https://www.init7.net/
Am 10.12.2024 um 16:07 schrieb Mat Kowalski via swinog swinog@lists.swinog.ch:
Hi all,
This came up recently when I was talking with some colleagues about residential connections... You know, regular stuff people discuss over a beer or two... We all know Init7 is recognized as The Provider for power users and no one argues with that. But also everyone knows we have mainstream ones kinda-supporting IPv6. Swisscom gives public IPv4 and IPv6 via 6rd tunnel. Similar with Sunrise, but sometimes you end up on CG-NAT. Salt is only CG-NAT, at least according to the anecdotal proofs.
Power users wouldn't be power if they did not try stuff. So I took my Sunrise FTTH over native fiber (EWZ in my case, not Swisscom BBCS) and it turns out I get public IPv4 from DHCP (expected) as well as IPv6 /56 prefix via DHCPv6 (not expected at all). The last one is extremely surprising - the status quo was that you can get IPv6 with Sunrise via 6rd, but DHCPv6 is a novelty. Or is it not?
What is the state in 2024 ? Who does IPv6 ? Who does it natively ?
I am surprised there is no single google result about Sunrise doing DHCPv6 so I wonder what we don't know about other ISPs.
Cheers and have a nice day, Mat
swinog mailing list -- swinog@lists.swinog.ch To unsubscribe send an email to swinog-leave@lists.swinog.ch
Dear Round, here my personal opinion, tested 2years ago in a lookvise of latency, i think there is a lot time gone since the message below was true... "Swisscom gives public IPv4 and IPv6 via 6rd tunnel" , if i have it right in mind round 4 years ago this has changed, ipv6 is natively in each household.....
And no, we not all know init7 is for power users, since the latency to reach things outside CH is not the best.
but i asume this was already known....
regards
Chris
________________________________ Von: Mat Kowalski via swinog swinog@lists.swinog.ch Gesendet: Dienstag, 10. Dezember 2024 16:06:37 An: swinog@lists.swinog.ch Betreff: [swinog] Residential FTTH IPv6
Be aware: This is an external email.
Hi all,
This came up recently when I was talking with some colleagues about residential connections... You know, regular stuff people discuss over a beer or two... We all know Init7 is recognized as The Provider for power users and no one argues with that. But also everyone knows we have mainstream ones kinda-supporting IPv6. Swisscom gives public IPv4 and IPv6 via 6rd tunnel. Similar with Sunrise, but sometimes you end up on CG-NAT. Salt is only CG-NAT, at least according to the anecdotal proofs.
Power users wouldn't be power if they did not try stuff. So I took my Sunrise FTTH over native fiber (EWZ in my case, not Swisscom BBCS) and it turns out I get public IPv4 from DHCP (expected) as well as IPv6 /56 prefix via DHCPv6 (not expected at all). The last one is extremely surprising - the status quo was that you can get IPv6 with Sunrise via 6rd, but DHCPv6 is a novelty. Or is it not?
What is the state in 2024 ? Who does IPv6 ? Who does it natively ?
I am surprised there is no single google result about Sunrise doing DHCPv6 so I wonder what we don't know about other ISPs.
Cheers and have a nice day, Mat
_______________________________________________ swinog mailing list -- swinog@lists.swinog.ch To unsubscribe send an email to swinog-leave@lists.swinog.ch
Dear Mat,
Chris is right in the fact that It’s now been probably around years since Swisscom introduced dual-stack (means native v4 AND v6 addressing) to RES end-customers. We didn’t do so because we would like to shine, but just because infrastructure at that moment both forced AND let us do. 6rd was a quick and dirty way how to “v6-enable” subscribers rapidly, but clearly bandwidth-growth killed this approach even more rapidly 😉. So, in our organization there is now engineers, who know the term 6rd only from theory – if ever 😉. When it comes to public or private IPv4 addressing let me say: We try to give out public addresses whenever we can. But Swisscom too can’t address all the subscribers publicly with the amount of addresses we got years back. This results in the fact that lowest-end (or even VOIP only purpose) products would be CGNATed on IPv4.
Hope this helps getting you the picture.
Kind Regards Egon
From: Mat Kowalski via swinog swinog@lists.swinog.ch Date: Tuesday, 10 December 2024 at 16:07 To: swinog@lists.swinog.ch swinog@lists.swinog.ch Subject: [swinog] Residential FTTH IPv6
Be aware: This is an external email.
Hi all,
This came up recently when I was talking with some colleagues about residential connections... You know, regular stuff people discuss over a beer or two... We all know Init7 is recognized as The Provider for power users and no one argues with that. But also everyone knows we have mainstream ones kinda-supporting IPv6. Swisscom gives public IPv4 and IPv6 via 6rd tunnel. Similar with Sunrise, but sometimes you end up on CG-NAT. Salt is only CG-NAT, at least according to the anecdotal proofs.
Power users wouldn't be power if they did not try stuff. So I took my Sunrise FTTH over native fiber (EWZ in my case, not Swisscom BBCS) and it turns out I get public IPv4 from DHCP (expected) as well as IPv6 /56 prefix via DHCPv6 (not expected at all). The last one is extremely surprising - the status quo was that you can get IPv6 with Sunrise via 6rd, but DHCPv6 is a novelty. Or is it not?
What is the state in 2024 ? Who does IPv6 ? Who does it natively ?
I am surprised there is no single google result about Sunrise doing DHCPv6 so I wonder what we don't know about other ISPs.
Cheers and have a nice day, Mat
_______________________________________________ swinog mailing list -- swinog@lists.swinog.ch To unsubscribe send an email to swinog-leave@lists.swinog.ch
Hi,
Applause to Swisscom for being early in IPv6 rollout and then cleaning it all up for native IPv6 ;-)
Now, what about Swisscom mobile? I do frequently hear "there is no IPv6 and nobody knows when this is going to change", which is sad :-( - any more positive news there?
Gert Doering -- NetMaster
Hi Hum, do not tempt me… I had a mail exchange with a Swisscom guy several years back (I think in 2018), where they told me they will test it “next” year 😉
Hope they do it next year 😉
Regards, Urs
Von: Gert Doering via swinog swinog@lists.swinog.ch Datum: Mittwoch, 11. Dezember 2024 um 10:55 An: Egon.Luginbuehl@swisscom.com Egon.Luginbuehl@swisscom.com Cc: mko@redhat.com mko@redhat.com, swinog@lists.swinog.ch swinog@lists.swinog.ch Betreff: [swinog] Re: Residential FTTH IPv6 Hi,
Applause to Swisscom for being early in IPv6 rollout and then cleaning it all up for native IPv6 ;-)
Now, what about Swisscom mobile? I do frequently hear "there is no IPv6 and nobody knows when this is going to change", which is sad :-( - any more positive news there?
Gert Doering -- NetMaster -- have you enabled IPv6 on something today...?
SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard, Ingo Lalla, Karin Schuler, Sebastian Cler Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) Tel: +49 (0)89/32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279 _______________________________________________ swinog mailing list -- swinog@lists.swinog.ch To unsubscribe send an email to swinog-leave@lists.swinog.ch
Hi Gert, Urs
IMO: A mobile internet connection does not necessarily have to have the same flavor. 98% of the 4/5G customers do not care about the stack on what they’re connected - If the connectivity is ok to 100% of the destinations they want to reach. What I want to say: For a mobile operator , the situation is at least slightly different: They ramped up mass-market internet when public v4 pool resources were nearly already gone, and both device type and usage pattern differ quite a lot. This gives a quite different baseline. Private IPv4 with a capable NAT system behind (and the insane logging, for the dark side) did just well until sometime. If someone has the need for a proper dual-stack publicly reachable connection type on a mobile bearer (possibly even with the RES price-tag), I have no clue on which door to knock 😊. I dreamt last night (honestly it is not totally proof, this comment): The RES mobile mass-market will go into the direction of IPv6-only with NAT64. And I expect this not to take any 2 more years. Anything else does not make sense, with all the above I wrote.
But as mentioned: My opinion 😊
Kind Regards Egon
From: Müller Urs (S-SER-CEN2) urs.bf.mueller@sbb.ch Date: Wednesday, 11 December 2024 at 16:13 To: Gert Doering gert@space.net, Luginbühl Egon, INI-NET-VNC-E2E Egon.Luginbuehl@swisscom.com Cc: swinog@lists.swinog.ch swinog@lists.swinog.ch Subject: AW: [swinog] Re: Residential FTTH IPv6 Be aware: This is an external email.
Hi Hum, do not tempt me… I had a mail exchange with a Swisscom guy several years back (I think in 2018), where they told me they will test it “next” year 😉
Hope they do it next year 😉
Regards, Urs
Von: Gert Doering via swinog swinog@lists.swinog.ch Datum: Mittwoch, 11. Dezember 2024 um 10:55 An: Egon.Luginbuehl@swisscom.com Egon.Luginbuehl@swisscom.com Cc: mko@redhat.com mko@redhat.com, swinog@lists.swinog.ch swinog@lists.swinog.ch Betreff: [swinog] Re: Residential FTTH IPv6 Hi,
Applause to Swisscom for being early in IPv6 rollout and then cleaning it all up for native IPv6 ;-)
Now, what about Swisscom mobile? I do frequently hear "there is no IPv6 and nobody knows when this is going to change", which is sad :-( - any more positive news there?
Gert Doering -- NetMaster -- have you enabled IPv6 on something today...?
SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard, Ingo Lalla, Karin Schuler, Sebastian Cler Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) Tel: +49 (0)89/32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279 _______________________________________________ swinog mailing list -- swinog@lists.swinog.ch To unsubscribe send an email to swinog-leave@lists.swinog.ch
Amazing guys, I am sorry if you took my initial message as an attempt to diminish anyone's effort. That was definitely not my goal !
It is just extremely difficult to get the real picture because no provider gives this info via any public channel. Try googling "provider-of-your-choice IPv6 support" and enjoy the lack of results. There is no bad faith from my side, just that my personal knowledge is outdated (the last time I touched Swisscom RES was November 2020) so this here is an attempt to update it.
Same with public/CG-NAT for v4 -- we, in this group, know more than enough how scarce resource this pool is. So not judging anyone here, just saying that googling "provider-of-your-choice IPv4 public or cgnat" gives less results than we could wish for.
Ultimately what message I am trying to deliver here -- as for today, it's almost impossible to know what you get (without asking insiders) when you order a residential fiber with provider-of-your-choice.
Cheers and all the best, Mat
On 11/12/2024 08:32, Egon.Luginbuehl--- via swinog wrote:
Dear Mat,
Chris is right in the fact that It’s now been probably around years since Swisscom introduced dual-stack (means native v4 AND v6 addressing) to RES end-customers. We didn’t do so because we would like to shine, but just because infrastructure at that moment both forced AND let us do. 6rd was a quick and dirty way how to “v6-enable” subscribers rapidly, but clearly bandwidth-growth killed this approach even more rapidly 😉. So, in our organization there is now engineers, who know the term 6rd only from theory – if ever 😉.
When it comes to public or private IPv4 addressing let me say: We try to give out public addresses whenever we can. But Swisscom too can’t address all the subscribers publicly with the amount of addresses we got years back. This results in the fact that lowest-end (or even VOIP only purpose) products would be CGNATed on IPv4.
Hope this helps getting you the picture.
Kind Regards
Egon
*From: *Mat Kowalski via swinog swinog@lists.swinog.ch *Date: *Tuesday, 10 December 2024 at 16:07 *To: *swinog@lists.swinog.ch swinog@lists.swinog.ch *Subject: *[swinog] Residential FTTH IPv6
Be aware: This is an external email.
Hi all,
This came up recently when I was talking with some colleagues about residential connections... You know, regular stuff people discuss over a beer or two... We all know Init7 is recognized as The Provider for power users and no one argues with that. But also everyone knows we have mainstream ones kinda-supporting IPv6. Swisscom gives public IPv4 and IPv6 via 6rd tunnel. Similar with Sunrise, but sometimes you end up on CG-NAT. Salt is only CG-NAT, at least according to the anecdotal proofs.
Power users wouldn't be power if they did not try stuff. So I took my Sunrise FTTH over native fiber (EWZ in my case, not Swisscom BBCS) and it turns out I get public IPv4 from DHCP (expected) as well as IPv6 /56 prefix via DHCPv6 (not expected at all). The last one is extremely surprising - the status quo was that you can get IPv6 with Sunrise via 6rd, but DHCPv6 is a novelty. Or is it not?
What is the state in 2024 ? Who does IPv6 ? Who does it natively ?
I am surprised there is no single google result about Sunrise doing DHCPv6 so I wonder what we don't know about other ISPs.
Cheers and have a nice day, Mat
-
Christian.Ebnoether＠swisscom.com -
Egon.Luginbuehl＠swisscom.com -
Fredy Kuenzler -
Gert Doering -
Marc SCHAEFER -
Mat Kowalski -
Mueller Urs SBB CFF FFS