at last: http://www.vpb.admin.ch/deutsch/doc/69/69.106.html
very short summary of more than 20 pages of legal talk: spamming infringes swiss data protection law. or in german, copied from the decision: (DSG: Datenschutzgesetz)
- Die Zustellung von unverlangter E-Mail-Werbung an unbekannte und wahllos zusammengestellte Adressen, welche im Internet gesammelt wurden, stellt eine widerrechtliche Datenbearbeitung im Sinne von Art. 12 Abs. 2 Bst. a in Verbindung mit Art. 4 DSG dar (E. 5.1-5.7).
- Aus der Wirtschaftsfreiheit fliesst kein Rechtfertigungsgrund gemäss Art. 13 Abs. 1 DSG; insbesondere liegt kein überwiegendes privates Interesse der bearbeitenden Person vor (E. 5.8).
- Einzig die ausdrückliche vorherige Einwilligung der Betroffenen wäre geeignet, bei Massenversand von E-Mail-Werbung eine widerrechtliche Persönlichkeitsverletzung im Sinne des DSG auszuschliessen (E. 5.9).
- Eine «Opt-Out»-Möglichkeit in unangeforderten Werbe-E-Mails hebt demnach die Rechtswidrigkeit ihres Versandes nicht auf. Hingegen wäre sie geeignet, in Werbe-Mails, die zulässigerweise versandt werden, die Ausübung des Selbstbestimmungsrechts der Betroffenen bezüglich künftiger weiterer Datenbearbeitung zu unterstützen (E. 6).
christa
O.k., let's take on the next task...
[x] Declare Spamming illegal [ ] Declare protection of Music CDs illegal [ ] Declare Region-Protection of DVDs illegal [ ] ...
;-)
Viktor
Zitat von Christa Pfister mail@c-pfister.ch:
at last: http://www.vpb.admin.ch/deutsch/doc/69/69.106.html
very short summary of more than 20 pages of legal talk: spamming infringes swiss data protection law. or in german, copied from the decision: (DSG: Datenschutzgesetz)
--snip--
Hi all,
Since a few days we see strange errors, some websites aren't working properly due to resolving problems @swisscom ...
All domains with ns1.ip-plus.net as nameserver aren't working currently ...
-bash-2.05b# dig @ns1.ip-plus.net swisscom.com
; <<>> DiG 9.3.1 <<>> @ns1.ip-plus.net swisscom.com ; (1 server found) ;; global options: printcmd ;; Got answer: ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: REFUSED, id: 42826 ;; flags: qr rd; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 0
;; QUESTION SECTION: ;swisscom.com. IN A
-bash-2.05b# dig @ns1.ip-plus.net karger.com
; <<>> DiG 9.3.1 <<>> @ns1.ip-plus.net karger.com ; (1 server found) ;; global options: printcmd ;; Got answer: ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: REFUSED, id: 56384 ;; flags: qr rd; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 0
;; QUESTION SECTION: ;karger.com. IN A
;; Query time: 136 msec ;; SERVER: 164.128.36.34#53(164.128.36.34) ;; WHEN: Wed Nov 9 17:05:33 2005 ;; MSG SIZE rcvd: 28
Can anybody at swisscom look at this problem ?
Martin
Martin Blapp, mb@imp.ch mbr@FreeBSD.org ------------------------------------------------------------------ ImproWare AG, UNIXSP & ISP, Zurlindenstrasse 29, 4133 Pratteln, CH Phone: +41 61 826 93 00 Fax: +41 61 826 93 01 PGP: <finger -l mbr@freebsd.org> PGP Fingerprint: B434 53FC C87C FE7B 0A18 B84C 8686 EF22 D300 551E ------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello Martin
Martin Blapp wrote:
-bash-2.05b# dig @ns1.ip-plus.net swisscom.com
Why are you looking at ns1.ip-plus.net for checking the swisscom.com domain? Or are you a customer of IP-Plus and are using their namservers for lookups?
wenk@buckbeak:~$ whois swisscom.com
Domain servers in listed order:
NS.SWISSCOM.COM 138.190.13.10 NS1.SWISSCOM.COM 138.190.14.10
wenk@buckbeak:~$ host ns.swisscom.com ns.swisscom.com A 138.190.13.10 wenk@buckbeak:~$ host ns1.swisscom.com ns1.swisscom.com A 138.190.14.10
but:
wenk@buckbeak:~$ host ns1.ip-plus.net ns1.ip-plus.net A 164.128.36.34
-bash-2.05b# dig @ns1.ip-plus.net karger.com
Ok, for this domain ns1.ip-plus.net is listed:
wenk@buckbeak:~$ whois karger.com
Domain servers in listed order: karns.karger.com ns1.ip-plus.net
wenk@buckbeak:~$ host karns.karger.com karns.karger.com does not exist, try again
Looking up directly at a root nameserver seems to work:
wenk@buckbeak:~$ host -t any karger.com a.gtld-servers.net karger.com NS karns.karger.com karger.com NS ns1.ip-plus.net wenk@buckbeak:~$ host -t a karns.karger.com a.gtld-servers.net karns.karger.com A 194.209.48.6
it also works on their nameserver:
wenk@buckbeak:~$ host -t any karger.com 194.209.48.6 karger.com A 194.209.48.2 karger.com NS karns.karger.ch karger.com NS ns1.ip-plus.net karger.com SOA karns.karger.ch administrator.karger.ch ( 2004102244 ;serial (version) 10800 ;refresh period (3 hours) 3600 ;retry interval (1 hour) 604800 ;expire time (1 week) 86400 ;default ttl (1 day) ) karger.com MX 20 avmail.ip-plus.net karger.com MX 10 mail1.karger.ch karger.com TXT "v=spf1 mx -all"
But not on ns1.ip-plus.net:
wenk@buckbeak:~$ host -t any karger.com ns1.ip-plus.net karger.com ANY record query refused by ns1.ip-plus.net wenk@buckbeak:~$ host -t ns karger.com ns1.ip-plus.net karger.com NS record query refused by ns1.ip-plus.net wenk@buckbeak:~$ host -t mx karger.com ns1.ip-plus.net karger.com A record query refused by ns1.ip-plus.net
So something with the karger.com domains seems to be wrong.
Can anybody at swisscom look at this problem ?
Could probably only be a problem of karger.com, which eventually do not anymore allow zone transfers from ns1.ip-plus.net and so the zone expired at ns1.ip-plus.net.
bye Fabian
I think that this server replies with REFUSED to any query for which it can't provide an authoritative answer if the source of the query is located outside of ip-plus (returning a referral would be more adequate IMHO, but this is a different issue).
Now, swisscom.com isn't even deleagted to this server, so no surprise there.
OTOH, karger.com has a lame delegation to ns1.ip-plus.net. The tool at http://www.ipplus.net/tools/dig_dns_set.de.html, which sees a different "view" of the server with recursion enabled, returns information for this domain with the "aa" flag not set (i.e. from the cache).
-- Alex
On Wed, 9 Nov 2005 17:06:41 +0100 (CET), Martin Blapp mb@imp.ch said:
Hi all,
Since a few days we see strange errors, some websites aren't working properly due to resolving problems @swisscom ...
All domains with ns1.ip-plus.net as nameserver aren't working currently ...
-bash-2.05b# dig @ns1.ip-plus.net swisscom.com
; <<>> DiG 9.3.1 <<>> @ns1.ip-plus.net swisscom.com ; (1 server found) ;; global options: printcmd ;; Got answer: ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: REFUSED, id: 42826 ;; flags: qr rd; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 0
;; QUESTION SECTION: ;swisscom.com. IN A
-bash-2.05b# dig @ns1.ip-plus.net karger.com
; <<>> DiG 9.3.1 <<>> @ns1.ip-plus.net karger.com ; (1 server found) ;; global options: printcmd ;; Got answer: ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: REFUSED, id: 56384 ;; flags: qr rd; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 0
;; QUESTION SECTION: ;karger.com. IN A
;; Query time: 136 msec ;; SERVER: 164.128.36.34#53(164.128.36.34) ;; WHEN: Wed Nov 9 17:05:33 2005 ;; MSG SIZE rcvd: 28
Can anybody at swisscom look at this problem ?
Martin
Martin Blapp, mb@imp.ch mbr@FreeBSD.org
ImproWare AG, UNIXSP & ISP, Zurlindenstrasse 29, 4133 Pratteln, CH Phone: +41 61 826 93 00 Fax: +41 61 826 93 01 PGP: <finger -l mbr@freebsd.org> PGP Fingerprint: B434 53FC C87C FE7B 0A18 B84C 8686 EF22 D300 551E
swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
On Wed, 9 Nov 2005 16:22:43 +0100 Viktor Steinmann stony@stony.com wrote:
[x] Declare Spamming illegal [ ] Declare protection of Music CDs illegal [ ] Declare Region-Protection of DVDs illegal
The regio protection is already declared illegal in Switzerland. Or why do you think you can here to buy a region-free dvd player while you cannot in Germany ?
But dont ask me where it's written. I had a quick look at admin.ch but couldn't find it.
BTW: It's also illegal to sell copy protected music CDs that carry the compact disc label[1], as they do not conform to the compact disc standard.
Attila Kinali
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Compactd.JPG
'llo!
Quoting Attila Kinali attila@kinali.ch:
On Wed, 9 Nov 2005 16:22:43 +0100 The regio protection is already declared illegal in Switzerland. Or why do you think you can here to buy a region-free dvd player while you cannot in Germany ?
[..]
BTW: It's also illegal to sell copy protected music CDs that carry the compact disc label[1], as they do not conform to the compact disc standard.
Please don't mix those up, they're 100% independent each from another. The first thing is a legal fact valid for switzerland, it is swiss law (iirc "Verbraucherrecht").
The second is a copyright / patent issue brought up by philipps who is the owner of the Compact-Disc standard. All others using this label are licensing this standard.
Since those Copy-Protected CDs do not comply with this standard, Philipps sees a patent-violation in this.
CU Tobias
Since those Copy-Protected CDs do not comply with this standard, Philipps sees a patent-violation in this.
For once, a patent had something good about it.
It's got nothing to do with patents. It's about the rules of usage (license) of a trademark (registered compact disc logo).
Michi
Uh... maybe that's true for the players. Try to buy a Region-1 DVD in CH...
(yes, I know that Amazon.com etc. are shipping from the US, but that's not the point)
Cheers, Viktor
Zitat von Attila Kinali attila@kinali.ch:
The regio protection is already declared illegal in Switzerland. Or why do you think you can here to buy a region-free dvd player while you cannot in Germany ?
Viktor Steinmann schrieb:
Uh... maybe that's true for the players. Try to buy a Region-1 DVD in CH...
(yes, I know that Amazon.com etc. are shipping from the US, but that's not the point)
Since I have to pick up some ordered DVDs[1] from Laserzone[2] tonight, I'll ask the folks there. Stay tuned.
CU, Venty
[1] La Linea, Signor Rossi. Both Region 2. [2] http://www.laserzone.ch/
Viktor Steinmann schrieb:
Uh... maybe that's true for the players. Try to buy a Region-1 DVD in
CH...
(yes, I know that Amazon.com etc. are shipping from the US, but that's not the point)
do they? I once tried to order a Region1-DVD from amazon.com (not .de), and in about step 5 of the ordering process, they found out that my address is outside US (of course you'd entered the address in step 2 or so) and refused to ship. that was 2y ago or so.
You can buy online by www.1a-dvdshop.ch ore laserzone.ch
and ohter Videostores.
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: swinog-bounces@lists.swinog.ch [mailto:swinog-bounces@lists.swinog.ch]Im Auftrag von Viktor Steinmann Gesendet: Donnerstag, 10. November 2005 15:20 An: swinog@swinog.ch Betreff: Re: [swinog] swiss jurisprudence regarding spam
Uh... maybe that's true for the players. Try to buy a Region-1 DVD in CH...
(yes, I know that Amazon.com etc. are shipping from the US, but that's not the point)
Cheers, Viktor
Zitat von Attila Kinali attila@kinali.ch:
The regio protection is already declared illegal in Switzerland. Or why do you think you can here to buy a region-free dvd player while you cannot in Germany ?
_______________________________________________ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
Some time ago the law was changed to actually forbid importing DVDs from any other country (even EU). It caused a lot of outrage and the law was changed back a year later. That's why there was some time when Code1 DVD was forbidden entirely and DVD shop owner were not allowed to buy their stock in Germany, France or Italy for example. They had buy everything at the official Swiss importers at inflated prices. On top of that the importers didn't want to stock many films and limited the choice. Since about two years DVDs may be (commercially and) legally imported again. Much more choice now again and the milking of the consumer was stopped again.
On Wed, 2005-11-09 at 15:27 +0100, Christa Pfister wrote:
- Die Zustellung von unverlangter E-Mail-Werbung an unbekannte und
wahllos zusammengestellte Adressen, welche im Internet gesammelt wurden, stellt eine widerrechtliche Datenbearbeitung im Sinne von Art. 12 Abs. 2 Bst. a in Verbindung mit Art. 4 DSG dar (E. 5.1-5.7).
Can I sue Mr. Fürst now????
Peter
Peter Baumann wrote:
On Wed, 2005-11-09 at 15:27 +0100, Christa Pfister wrote:
- Die Zustellung von unverlangter E-Mail-Werbung an unbekannte und
wahllos zusammengestellte Adressen, welche im Internet gesammelt wurden, stellt eine widerrechtliche Datenbearbeitung im Sinne von Art. 12 Abs. 2 Bst. a in Verbindung mit Art. 4 DSG dar (E. 5.1-5.7).
Can I sue Mr. Fürst now????
You can or could have sued them (Fuerst and Co.) whenever you want/wanted. You just need to legally proof their misbehaviour.
Trrace the mail back to the origin Server spamming from somwhere or Bots, Company from whereever Excuse about advertised Fax/E-Mail: "I haven't done this", "Maybe a competitor", "one of my franchisees was this"
Other countries look different at the law.
If justice looked at his books (finance) it might be easy to find little or no revenue other than trade advertised over spamming.
Maybe a "tax check" revealing the facts AND then a legal inevstigation would be the easiest way to prosecute swiss spammers.
However, tax inspection and legal investigation are seperated.
Guido
-
Alexander Gall -
Andre Oppermann -
Attila Kinali -
Christa Pfister -
Fabian Wenk -
Guido Roeskens -
Martin Blapp -
Martin Ebnoether -
Michael Naef -
Peter Baumann -
Tobias Goeller -
Umberto Annino -
Viktor Steinmann -
Xaver Aerni