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NDG Referendum
by Gregor Riepl 17 Sep '16

17 Sep '16

A little reminder to everyone who has not cast their vote yet: On September 25, the Swiss citizens will decide whether to accept or refuse the new NDG/LRens/LAIn/LSI/ISA (Nachrichtendienstgesetz/Loi fédérale sur le renseignement/Legge federale sulle attività informative/Lescha federala davart il servetsch d'infurmaziun/Intelligence Service Act): https://www.admin.ch/gov/en/start/documentation/votes/20160925/intelligence… Please don't forget to vote!

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SwiNOG #30 - 4th November 2016 - (Calling for Papers)
by Simon Ryf 15 Sep '16

15 Sep '16

Dear SwiNOG supporter, this is the official Call for Paper email. Please send your proposal to swinog-core (at) swinog.ch or directly to me. The 30th meeting of the Swiss Network Operators Group (SwiNOG) will be held in Berne on top of the Gurten on November 4th 2016. Important Dates for SwiNOG#30 --------------------------------------------------- 17.08.2016 Announcement of Meeting 05.09.2016 Registration opens 14.09.2016 Call for Papers 16.10.2016 Call for Papers closing 23.10.2016 Final publication of agenda 27.10.2016 Registration closes 01.11.2016 Deadline for all slides 04.11.2016 Meeting day Topics for Presentations/Talks --------------------------------------------------- The number and length of presentations per session is not fixed, although due to time constraints we would prefer the length of the presentations to be between 5 to 45 minutes. Here is a non-exhaustive list of typical SwiNOG meeting topics: - Security - DDOS Mitigation - AntiSpam - IPv6 - Open Source tools - International view of the internet (incidents, outages, measurements) - Routing - Server applications (DNS, Web, etc.) - Legal issues (BÜPF, etc.) - Telecommunication politics (Net Neutrality, Incumbent monopoly, etc.) -> PLEASE feel free to talk to us about any kind of topic and collaboration!!! You can always start a discussion on the list - I'm sure people join in. Language of Slides and Talks --------------------------------------------------- The whole day will be held in English, therefore we kindly ask you to produce your presentation in English. Submission Guidelines --------------------------------------------------- All submissions must have a strong technical bias and must not be solely promotional for your employer. Please remember that your presentations should be suitable for a target audience of technicians from varied backgrounds, working for companies whose sizes may vary considerably. To submit a proposal for a presentation, we request that you provide the following information to <swinog-core at swinog.ch>: * the name of the presenter (and if applicable your affiliation) * a working email address * the name and number of the topic which will contain the presentation * the title of the presentation * its expected length (in minutes) * a short abstract of the presentation (so we know what it is about) We also welcome suggestions for specific presentations which you feel would be valuable to the SwiNOG community. Please be aware that your presentation will be published on the SwiNOG website after the event. We can publish modified slides if requested - it might be that some confidential data will be presented by you which are not intended for publication on the internet. Greetings, Simon Ryf SwiNOG Core Team General Information (SwiNOG Community) --------------------------------------------------- The Swiss Network Operators Group (SwiNOG) is an informal group of people who are concerned with engineering and operation of the Swiss Internet. SwiNOG exists to enhance the quality of Internet services available in Switzerland. It does this by fostering the free exchange of technical ideas and information between different companies and organisations. SwiNOG is a community for professionals who are operating, designing or researching the Internet. It provides a technical forum where those working on, with and for the Internet can come together to solve problems with every aspect of their (net)work. The meeting is designed to provide an opportunity for the exchange of information among network operators, engineers, researchers and other professionals close to the network community. More information about SwiNOG can be found at http://www.swinog.ch/, Facebook, Xing, Information about the meeting will be published at http://www.swinog.ch/meetings/swinog30/ General Information (SwiNOG Organisation) --------------------------------------------------- The SwiNOG Organisation Association is a non-profit association under article 60 and further of the swiss civil law. It manages the SwiNOG community ressources (domain, web, mailing-lists, etc..) and organises SwiNOG meetings. Contact: SwiNOG Organisation 8000 Zurich Switzerland

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PCH peering survey 2016
by Bill Woodcock 15 Sep '16

15 Sep '16

Background: Five years ago PCH conducted the first, and to date only, comprehensive survey characterizing Internet peering agreements. The document that resulted can be found here: https://www.pch.net/resources/Papers/peering-survey/PCH-Peering-Survey-2011… <https://www.pch.net/resources/Papers/peering-survey/PCH-Peering-Survey-2011…> That document was one of the principal inputs to an important document that the OECD publishes every five years, one that recommends communications regulatory policy to OECD member nations: http://www.oecd.org/officialdocuments/publicdisplaydocumentpdf/?cote=DSTI/I… <http://www.oecd.org/officialdocuments/publicdisplaydocumentpdf/?cote=DSTI/I…> The survey had several useful findings which hadn’t previously been established as fact—most notably the portion of peering relationships that are “handshake” agreements, without written contract. These findings have improved the regulatory environments in which many of us operate our networks. At the time of the 2011 survey, we committed to repeating the survey every five years, so as to provide an ongoing indication of the direction peering trends take. It’s now five years later, so we’re repeating the survey. The survey is global in scope, and our goal is to reflect the diversity of peering agreements in the world; we’re interested in large ISPs and small ISPs, ISPs in Afghanistan and in Zimbabwe, bilateral agreements and multilateral, private and public. Our intent is to be as comprehensive as possible. In 2011, the responses we received represented 86% of all of the world’s ISPs and 96 countries. We would like to be at least as inclusive this time. Privacy: In 2011, we promised to collect the smallest set of data necessary to answer the questions, to perform the analysis immediately, and not to retain the data after the analysis was accomplished. In that way, we ensured that the privacy of respondents was fully protected. We did as we said, no data was leaked, and the whole community benefited from the trust that was extended to us. We ask for your trust again now as we make the same commitment to protect the privacy of all respondents, using the same process as last time. We are asking for no more data than is absolutely necessary. We will perform the analysis immediately upon receiving all of the data. We will delete the data once the analysis has been performed. The Survey: We would like to know the following five pieces of information relative to each Autonomous System you peer with: • Your ASN • Your peer’s ASN (peers only, not upstream transit providers or downstream customers) • Whether a written and signed peering agreement exists (the alternative being a less formal arrangement, such as a "handshake agreement") • Whether the terms are roughly symmetric (the alternative being that they describe an agreement with different terms for each of the two parties, such as one compensating the other, or one receiving more or fewer than full customer routes) • Whether a jurisdiction of governing law is defined • Whether IPv6 routes are being exchanged (this year, we’ll still assume that IPv4 are) The easiest way for us to receive the information is as a tab-text or CSV file or an Excel spreadsheet, consisting of rows with the following columns: Your ASN: Integer Peer ASN: Integer Written agreement: Boolean Symmetric: Boolean Governing Law: ISO 3166 two-digit country-code, or empty IPv6 Routes: Boolean For instance: 42 <tab> 715 <tab> false <tab> true <tab> us <tab> true <cr> 42 <tab> 3856 <tab> true <tab> true <tab> us <tab> true <cr> We are asking for the ASNs only so we can avoid double-counting a single pair of peers when we hear from both of them, and so that when we hear about a relationship in responses from both peers we can see how closely the two responses match, an important check on the quality of the survey. As soon as we've collated the data, we'll strip the ASNs to protect privacy, and only the final aggregate statistics will be published. We will never disclose any ASN or any information about any ASN. We already have more than 8,000 ASN-pair relationships documented, and we hope to receive as many more as possible. We'd like to finish collecting data by the end of September, about two weeks from now. If you’re peering with an MLPA route-server, you’re welcome to include just the route-server’s ASN, if that’s easiest, rather than trying to include each of the peer ASNs on the other side of the route-server. Either way is fine. If all of your sessions have the same characteristics, you can just tell us what those characteristics are once, your own ASN once, and give us a simple list of your peer ASNs. If your number of peers is small enough to be pasted or typed into an email, rather than attached as a file, and that’s simpler, just go ahead and do that. If you have written peering agreements that are covered by non-disclosure agreements, or if your organizational policy precludes disclosing your peers, but you’d still like to participate in the survey, please let us know, and we’ll work with whatever information you’re able to give us and try to ensure that your practices are statistically represented in our results. If you're able to help us, please email me the data in whatever form you can. If you need a non-disclosure, we're happy to sign one. Finally, if there are any other questions you’d like to see answered in the future, please let us know so that we can consider addressing them in the 2021 survey. The question about IPv6 routing in this year’s survey is there because quite a few of the 2011 respondents asked us to include it this time. Please respond by replying to this email, before the end of September. Thank you for considering participating. We very much appreciate it, and we look forward to returning the results to the community. -Bill Woodcock Executive Director Packet Clearing House

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Offtopic: Servers that companies throw out? :)
by Mihai Tanasescu 12 Sep '16

12 Sep '16

Hi guys, I am shooting an offtopic, wild question.. though I kind of guess what the answers might be. Where are the big companies recycling / throwing away their servers? I am looking to build a mini lab for playing with various stuff ranging from Cisco Virl to VMware NSX and I also have to my luck a place to rack equipment free of charge with me only paying for electricity. The only missing piece is a server with enough RAM and I was looking into cheaper alternatives (already looked in ricardo and ebay but was wondering where companies throw their older tech). Can someone please enlighten me? Cheers, Mihai

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ICT "Archaeology" at Technopark Zurich
by Rolf Sommerhalder 11 Sep '16

11 Sep '16

Hello SwiNOGers, At Technopark in Zurich, where I work for a small startup, there is still no native IPv6 connectivity available. From what I gather, some of the other 300 companies in this compound also struggle to get decent Internet connectivity. To the extent that some, including ourselves, resort to using flat-rate unlimited wireless 4G/LTE connections. Which is an acceptable work-around for resilience and off-loading traffic that is not sensitive to higher latency, such as e-mail, bulk up-/downloads, streaming, or off-site backup... Although there is an inversion going on where transmissions migrate to wireless which traditionally were cable-bound (for ex. telephony), and vice-versa (for ex. broadcasting), I started digging a bit into the history: Until at least 2008, Swisscom had a "National MPLS Lab" full of Cisco gear in a room right next to our offices. If I recall correctly, Swisscom had set this Lab up after it had acquired Xmit and the Unisource alliance broke up. From that Lab at Technopark, there were trunks of fibers running directly to Swisscom's large facilities in Herdern and in Binz. But so far, I was unable to locate those fibers. Were they really ripped out, or are they still there? Or, were they just abandoned? But who owns them? Could we illuminate a pair, or two? Further research indicates IXEurope had setup _two_ Data Centers at Technopark where they operated Telehouse Internet Exchanges (TIX) in 2005/2006 [1, 2]. Until at least 2007, when Equinix had acquired TIX/IXEurope [3]. What happened to the two Data Centers at Technopark? Did Equinix move the TIX to its other colos in/near Zurich? Did the "over 60 ISPs" move who were apparently peering at TIX? Could we illuminate just a pair of the bunch of fibers that likely are still buried between Technopark and Hardstrasse 235, or Josephstrasse, etc.? Apparently, at least COLT still maintains a PoP at Technopark with fat pipes (likely from the TIX area). But so far, we were unable to get an offer for IP Transit from them, or their re-sellers. Also Rackspace has at least offices in a building adjacent to Technopark. Back in 2007/8, there were rumors that Google was building a data center nearby (cooled by water from the river Limmat). We just became a RIPE member and got our IPv4/6 PA allocations and an AS Number as a LIR. Now, I am looking at our options to get cost-effective IPv4/6 Internet connectivity for our offices at Technopark, as well as scalable IP Transit and/or co-location with housing for our physical server appliances in two geo-redundant data centers in or near Zurich. For example, it would be great to peer at SwissIX, provided that we can find some affordable L2/3 transport between Technopark and Josephstrasse, which is literally just up the road. Thanks for any hints what happened to those resources at Technopark (TIX, Data Centers, transmission lines, etc.) since 2008 while I was working abroad, Rolf [1] IXEurope Connects Switzerland's Internet Exchange Points http://www.equinix.ch/newsroom/press-releases/pr/123269/ixeurope-connects-s… [2] IXEurope Expands Swiss Datacentre Footprint http://www.prweb.com/releases/2006/08/prweb419626.htm [3] IXEurope Acquired by Equinix https://news.netcraft.com/archives/2007/06/28/ixeurope_acquired_by_equinix.…

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Re: [swinog] Colocation of PC Engines APU2 with BGP feed
by Pascal Mathis 11 Sep '16

11 Sep '16

Nice to meet you. Generally speaking I think that a VM with a sufficient CPU and 4GB of RAM is not going to be cheaper, especially not in Switzerland. Also, VMs dont usually come with an IX port, so that's another thing I would miss out. Last but not least, I prefer to run stuff on owned/real hardware. An APU2 seems perfect for my needs without breaking my budget. Got two offers so far which are promising, so just waiting a bit longer to collect some potential further offers. Thank you anyways for your suggestions! On 09/11/2016 03:53 AM, Stanislav Sinyagin wrote: > (I'm the author of Debian installer for APU :-) > > I know two or three potential places where you could have this, but a VM > will be preferable, just not to clutter the rack space. > > > > On Sun, Sep 11, 2016 at 3:51 AM, Stanislav Sinyagin > <ssinyagin(a)k-open.com <mailto:ssinyagin@k-open.com>> wrote: > > why not a virtual machine? It would be cheaper than placing a > hardware box. > > > > On Sat, Sep 10, 2016 at 11:46 PM, Pascal Mathis > <mailinglist+swinog(a)snapserv.net > <mailto:mailinglist+swinog@snapserv.net>> wrote: > > Dear SwiNOGers, > > for a personal project I would be interested in colocating a PC > Engines > APU2 somewhere in Switzerland with the following specifications: > > - Colocation of a single APU2 in the usual PC Engines case - I > do not > need physical access to the DC, actually sending the fully > configured > machine so that someone can rack it would be preferred. > > - BGP session with IPv4 + IPv6 fulltable feeds and working > communities. > > - Gigabit port, 1 to 5TB of traffic included, but most of the > time less > than 200-300G are going to be used per month, so smaller offers > should > work out as well. > > - Optional: A port to SwissIX would be really great, of course I > would > pay any interconnect fees (and the usual membership fees to > SwissIX). > > I am already familiar with BGP and am currently operating my primary > location in Frankfurt, Germany. No SLA required, price should be as > cheap as possible - I do not need any enterprise support or > something > like that. > > For people who don't know what a APU2 is, you can find more > information > here http://www.pcengines.ch/apu2.htm > <http://www.pcengines.ch/apu2.htm> (the machine itself) and > http://www.pcengines.ch/case1d2blku.htm > <http://www.pcengines.ch/case1d2blku.htm> (the case, > 17cmx16cmx3cm). I > know that I am asking for a lot, but I thought if someone is able to > offer something like that for a reasonable price which can be > paid by an > individual, I'll most likely find him/her on SwiNOG. > > If you have any offers or further questions, please reply to the > mailinglist or directly contact me at ncc(a)snapserv.net > <mailto:ncc@snapserv.net>. > > Best regards and have a nice sunday, > Pascal Mathis > > > _______________________________________________ > swinog mailing list > swinog(a)lists.swinog.ch <mailto:swinog@lists.swinog.ch> > http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog > <http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog> > > > > > -- > Stanislav Sinyagin > Senior Consultant, CCIE #5478 > ssinyagin(a)k-open.com <mailto:ssinyagin@k-open.com> > +41 79 407 0224 <tel:%2B41%2079%20407%200224> > > > > > -- > Stanislav Sinyagin > Senior Consultant, CCIE #5478 > ssinyagin(a)k-open.com <mailto:ssinyagin@k-open.com> > +41 79 407 0224

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Colocation of PC Engines APU2 with BGP feed
by Pascal Mathis 10 Sep '16

10 Sep '16

Dear SwiNOGers, for a personal project I would be interested in colocating a PC Engines APU2 somewhere in Switzerland with the following specifications: - Colocation of a single APU2 in the usual PC Engines case - I do not need physical access to the DC, actually sending the fully configured machine so that someone can rack it would be preferred. - BGP session with IPv4 + IPv6 fulltable feeds and working communities. - Gigabit port, 1 to 5TB of traffic included, but most of the time less than 200-300G are going to be used per month, so smaller offers should work out as well. - Optional: A port to SwissIX would be really great, of course I would pay any interconnect fees (and the usual membership fees to SwissIX). I am already familiar with BGP and am currently operating my primary location in Frankfurt, Germany. No SLA required, price should be as cheap as possible - I do not need any enterprise support or something like that. For people who don't know what a APU2 is, you can find more information here http://www.pcengines.ch/apu2.htm (the machine itself) and http://www.pcengines.ch/case1d2blku.htm (the case, 17cmx16cmx3cm). I know that I am asking for a lot, but I thought if someone is able to offer something like that for a reasonable price which can be paid by an individual, I'll most likely find him/her on SwiNOG. If you have any offers or further questions, please reply to the mailinglist or directly contact me at ncc(a)snapserv.net. Best regards and have a nice sunday, Pascal Mathis

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Joined SwissIX - SwiNOG-BE159 - Beer Event 159 @ Erzbierschof Zurich, Monday, 2016-09-26
by Emanuel Kleindienst 09 Sep '16

09 Sep '16

Dear SwissIXers & SwiNOGers, JOINED SwiNOG & SwissIX Beering Let's have some Beer & Food at Erzbierschof - an new location AGAIN!!! Upcoming events for rest of 2016: > SwiNOG-BE160: Mo, 24.10.16 > SwiNOG-BE161: Mo, 28.11.16 > SwiNOG-BE162: Mo, 12.12.16 (Christmas dinner) Looking forward seeing you! Emanuel, mobile +41 79 382 73 77, Email emanuel(a)vshn.ch Details for the next event: ----------------------------------------------- Event: Joined SwissIX - SwiNOG-BE159 - Beer Event 159 When? Monday, 26th September 2016 18:30 Where? Erzbierschof Freischuetzgasse 10, 8004 Zurich http://blackrider.erzbierschof.ch/ (GoogleMaps Link: http://https://goo.gl/maps/va7vLZkHngy) Places available? 35 !! Please sign up if you're really coming - because the seats are limited! !! ----------------------------------------------- Registration: Start: Friday, 2nd September 2016 - 14:20 Stop: Monday, 26th September 2016 - 17:00 Reg-URL: http://swinog.be/ ----------------------------------------------- Since we have to make reservations, I need to know who's coming and who not. If you can't attend and you're registered please inform me ASAP (+41 79 382 73 77). Cheers, Emanuel Kleindienst

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Re: [swinog] The Internet 40 years on
by Scott Weeks 29 Aug '16

29 Aug '16

--- jeroen(a)massar.ch wrote: From: Jeroen Massar <jeroen(a)massar.ch> http://m.sfgate.com/business/article/40-years-on-the-Internet-transmits-eve… For the people who like 'our history' ;) ----------------------------------------------- Hmmm, not so sure about sfgate.com's historical data. The internet first said "lo" like in 'lo and belold, I exist', but in reality it was the first three letters of "log". the whole system crashed when they typed the "g". That was 1969: http://www.lk.cs.ucla.edu/personal_history.html As far as packet radio (I'm from Hawaii, so I really like this one) Professor Norman Abramson developed ALOHAnet (packet radio) in 1970 at the University of Hawaii, which became the core idea for Robert Metcalfe's CSMA and, thus, Ethernet: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Packet_radio#Aloha_and_PRNET One of my favorites is the letter from R.Z. Bachrach: http://b2b.cbsimg.net/blogs/19740305-xerox-ethernet-memo1.jpg Which he clarifies as not what everyone thinks it said: https://www.reddit.com/r/reddit.com/comments/1xz13/in_1974_xerox_parc_engin… All of which was before 1974. scott _______________________________________________ swinog mailing list swinog(a)lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog

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The Internet 40 years on
by Jeroen Massar 28 Aug '16

28 Aug '16

http://m.sfgate.com/business/article/40-years-on-the-Internet-transmits-eve… For the people who like 'our history' ;) Greets, Jeroen

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