I found just following article in german only (I think you'll find it soon in french too):
http://www.20min.ch/news/wirtschaft/story/25685913
Breitband viel zu teuer
Der Breitbandmarkt in der Schweizer Telekommunikation ist 2004 zwar stark gewachsen. Die Konsumenten profitierten aber weder von hohen Bandbreiten zu günstigen Preisen noch von innovativen Produkten wie in einigen Nachbarländern, kritisiert die ComCom.
ADSL- und CATV-Anschlüsse hätten in der Schweiz im vergangenen Jahr um ganze 50 Prozent zugenommen, hält die Eidgenössische Kommunikationskommission (ComCom) am Montag in ihrem Jahresbericht 2004 fest.
Trotz dieser Zunahme hätten sich die Breitbandangebote kaum verändert. Neue Impulse erhofft sich die ComCom durch die Öffnung der letzten Meile für die Konkurrenz der Swisscom, welche der Nationalrat letzten Herbst beschlossen hatte.
Dank der Entbündelung könnten etwa die französischen Anbieter von Internettzugängen stark erhöhte Übertragungsraten anbieten. Zudem seien die Preise in Frankreich wesentlich günstiger als in der Schweiz.
Die meisten Anbieter hätten Ende 2004 eine Übertragungskapazität von 8 Megabit pro Sekunde für umgerechnet rund 23 Franken pro Monat angeboten. Darin seien die Inlandgespräche zudem oft schon inbegriffen.
In der Schweiz würden solche Bandbreiten noch nicht angeboten, ein direkter Vergleich sei daher schwierig, sagte ein ComCom-Sprecher. Cablecom etwa bietet eine Übertragungskapazität von 3 Megabit pro Sekunde für monatlich 150 Franken an (inkl. Modem). Und 2,4 Megabit kosten bei der Swisscom 99 Fr. pro Monat.
Auch Mobilfunk legt kräftig zu
Das Wachstum im Telekom-Sektor wird für die 25 EU-Staaten auf 4,6 Prozent geschätzt, höher also als das BIP-Wachstum, wie die ComCom weiter schreibt. Wachstumsmotor ist neben den Breitbanddiensten die Mobilkommunikation.
Dies ist auch in der Schweiz der Fall. Alle drei GSM-Anbieter konnten 2004 viele neue Kunden gewinnen und den Umsatz kräftig steigern. Bis Ende 2004 waren 87,4 Prozent der Schweizer Bevölkerung mit einem Handy ausgerüstet.
Die Marktanteile der GSM-Anbieter veränderten sich jedoch seit 2003 nur wenig (Swisscom Mobile 61,0 Prozent, Sunrise 21,3 Prozent und Orange 17,7 Prozent). Die Einführung der UMTS-Technologie bezeichnete die ComCom im Weiteren als Meilenstein für den Mobilfunk im vergangenen Jahr.
Der auf Ende 2004 zurückgetretene ComCom-Präsident Fulvio Caccia sprach sich in dem Bericht dagegen aus, die Swisscom vermehrt an die politische Leine zu nehmen. Geleitet wird die Kommission seit Anfang vom ehemaligen Direktor des Bundesamts für Kommunikation, Marc Furrer.
Quelle: SDA Publiziert am: 23. Mai 2005 17:55
On Mon, 2005-05-23 at 20:38 +0200, ueli heuer wrote:
I found just following article in german only (I think you'll find it soon in french too):
http://www.20min.ch/news/wirtschaft/story/25685913
Breitband viel zu teuer
Ehm, but is there anything that is not more expensive in .ch than in the rest of the world? :)
Okay.... fortunately the chocolate is reasonably cheap :)
Greets, Jeroen
Hey all,
I don´t think that the solution for everything is to open the last mile for everyone. OK, every provider would start with more "krasse" promotions. They wouldn't only throw the router behind you but also the whole PC, hub, firewall and a all-included trip to your favorite beer & beach destination.. :P
And innovations.. Please :) In one of the last "Netzwoche" sunrise was asked to say which kind of innovations the would launch if they would have the last mile and the answer was something like "ahem.. what was the question again?"
Just my 5 cents for this evening but I would appreciate some other opinions about this issue that is getting more and more HOT..
Have a good night!
[Al]
swinog@swinog.ch on Montag, 23. Mai 2005 at 20:38 +0100 wrote:
I found just following article in german only (I think you'll find it soon in french too):
http://www.20min.ch/news/wirtschaft/story/25685913
Breitband viel zu teuer
Der Breitbandmarkt in der Schweizer Telekommunikation ist 2004 zwar stark gewachsen. Die Konsumenten profitierten aber weder von hohen Bandbreiten zu günstigen Preisen noch von innovativen Produkten wie in einigen Nachbarländern, kritisiert die ComCom.
ADSL- und CATV-Anschlüsse hätten in der Schweiz im vergangenen Jahr um ganze 50 Prozent zugenommen, hält die Eidgenössische Kommunikationskommission (ComCom) am Montag in ihrem Jahresbericht 2004 fest.
Trotz dieser Zunahme hätten sich die Breitbandangebote kaum verändert. Neue Impulse erhofft sich die ComCom durch die Öffnung der letzten Meile für die Konkurrenz der Swisscom, welche der Nationalrat letzten Herbst beschlossen hatte.
Dank der Entbündelung könnten etwa die französischen Anbieter von Internettzugängen stark erhöhte Übertragungsraten anbieten. Zudem seien die Preise in Frankreich wesentlich günstiger als in der Schweiz.
Die meisten Anbieter hätten Ende 2004 eine Übertragungskapazität von 8 Megabit pro Sekunde für umgerechnet rund 23 Franken pro Monat angeboten. Darin seien die Inlandgespräche zudem oft schon inbegriffen.
In der Schweiz würden solche Bandbreiten noch nicht angeboten, ein direkter Vergleich sei daher schwierig, sagte ein ComCom-Sprecher. Cablecom etwa bietet eine Übertragungskapazität von 3 Megabit pro Sekunde für monatlich 150 Franken an (inkl. Modem). Und 2,4 Megabit kosten bei der Swisscom 99 Fr. pro Monat.
Auch Mobilfunk legt kräftig zu
Das Wachstum im Telekom-Sektor wird für die 25 EU-Staaten auf 4,6 Prozent geschätzt, höher also als das BIP-Wachstum, wie die ComCom weiter schreibt. Wachstumsmotor ist neben den Breitbanddiensten die Mobilkommunikation.
Dies ist auch in der Schweiz der Fall. Alle drei GSM-Anbieter konnten 2004 viele neue Kunden gewinnen und den Umsatz kräftig steigern. Bis Ende 2004 waren 87,4 Prozent der Schweizer Bevölkerung mit einem Handy ausgerüstet.
Die Marktanteile der GSM-Anbieter veränderten sich jedoch seit 2003 nur wenig (Swisscom Mobile 61,0 Prozent, Sunrise 21,3 Prozent und Orange 17,7 Prozent). Die Einführung der UMTS-Technologie bezeichnete die ComCom im Weiteren als Meilenstein für den Mobilfunk im vergangenen Jahr.
Der auf Ende 2004 zurückgetretene ComCom-Präsident Fulvio Caccia sprach sich in dem Bericht dagegen aus, die Swisscom vermehrt an die politische Leine zu nehmen. Geleitet wird die Kommission seit Anfang vom ehemaligen Direktor des Bundesamts für Kommunikation, Marc Furrer.
Quelle: SDA Publiziert am: 23. Mai 2005 17:55
-- I'm sorry, You did wha... oh _dear_.... _______________________________________________ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
Hello,
And innovations.. Please :) In one of the last "Netzwoche" sunrise was asked to say which kind of innovations the would launch if they would have the last mile and the answer was something like "ahem.. what was the question again?"
Just my 5 cents for this evening but I would appreciate some other opinions about this issue that is getting more and more HOT..
I lived in Germany for the last years and the big different from the consumer side is that in Germany you have tons of different offers you can order. And most of them have different prices, so in fact if you decide to get a broadbast connection you start to compare prices. In Switzerland, I believe every ADSL connection type 600/100, 1200/200, 2400/200 cost the same at most providers: 49.-, 69.-, 89.- There is no competition. It makes virtually no difference whether to go to swisscom, sunrise, cybernet, ... Sure it's easier to choose for the point of view of the consumer, but the prices will certainly not reflect the real expenses of the ISPs for these types of connections.
Regards, Jean-Pierre
Jean-Pierre Schwickerath wrote:
I lived in Germany for the last years and the big different from the consumer side is that in Germany you have tons of different offers you can order. And most of them have different prices, so in fact if you decide to get a broadbast connection you start to compare prices. In Switzerland, I believe every ADSL connection type 600/100, 1200/200, 2400/200 cost the same at most providers: 49.-, 69.-, 89.- There is no competition. It makes virtually no difference whether to go to swisscom, sunrise, cybernet, ... Sure it's easier to choose for the point of view of the consumer, but the prices will certainly not reflect the real expenses of the ISPs for these types of connections.
No, it doesn't reflect the real expenses of the ISPs. It's too low and no ISP makes a dime on the standard ADSL Offer at those prices. Swisscom on the other makes a lot of money on the ADSL lines they resell to the ISPs. Approximatly 75% of the enduser price go to Swisscom. And don't forget the ISP has to pay the VAT out of the 100% too. That leaves 17.4% for the ISP to cover all his costs including Internet bandwidth, investments for routers, helpdesk, admin, billing and so on... Consider yourself lucky if you make two or three bucks per subscriber and month.
Andre Oppermann wrote:
100% too. That leaves 17.4% for the ISP to cover all his costs including Internet bandwidth, investments for routers, helpdesk,
I think that's a good point. The ISP has to cover the Bandwith costs... I think my provider is not too happy with me either - I have about 2-4GB / day and pay CHF ~200/month....
CU Tobias
From: "Andre Oppermann" oppermann@networx.ch
[..]
100% too. That leaves 17.4% for the ISP to cover all his costs including Internet bandwidth, investments for routers, helpdesk, admin, billing and so on...
[..]
and don't forget the debitor-risk! It's a typical consumer product and so at least I expect a bunch of people paying their adsl-bill late or even never - but the ISP has to pay swisscom even when the end-user doesn't pay .... with such a customer you are loosing revenues from 10-20 "good" customers just to pay for the "bad" customer.
cu
nik
Hello Nik!
I agree with you, but this is normal in a market where you have to buy from suppliers. If you are selling "Kopfsalat" on the "Wochenmarkt", you have to pay the your supplier anyway, no matter if sou sold everything to the normal retail price.
Sad, but true - what does not mean, that i'm happy with it.
Matthias
From: "Andre Oppermann" oppermann@networx.ch
[..]
100% too. That leaves 17.4% for the ISP to cover all his costs including Internet bandwidth, investments for routers, helpdesk, admin, billing and so on...
[..]
and don't forget the debitor-risk! It's a typical consumer product and so at least I expect a bunch of people paying their adsl-bill late or even never - but the ISP has to pay swisscom even when the end-user doesn't pay .... with such a customer you are loosing revenues from 10-20 "good" customers just to pay for the "bad" customer.
cu
nik
swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
Tobias Goeller wrote:
Andre Oppermann wrote:
100% too. That leaves 17.4% for the ISP to cover all his costs including Internet bandwidth, investments for routers, helpdesk,
I think that's a good point. The ISP has to cover the Bandwith costs... I think my provider is not too happy with me either - I have about 2-4GB / day and pay CHF ~200/month....
That depends on your ISP. If it's Bluewin or Cablecom it doesn't really matter. If it's some other ADSL ISP then yes, you are not the ideal customer. ;-)
Nik Hug wrote:
From: "Andre Oppermann" oppermann@networx.ch
[..]
100% too. That leaves 17.4% for the ISP to cover all his costs including Internet bandwidth, investments for routers, helpdesk, admin, billing and so on...
[..]
and don't forget the debitor-risk! It's a typical consumer product and so at least I expect a bunch of people paying their adsl-bill late or even never - but the ISP has to pay swisscom even when the end-user doesn't pay .... with such a customer you are loosing revenues from 10-20 "good" customers just to pay for the "bad" customer.
However the sad thing is no matter how low the wholesale price for the ISP will be, there is always one approaching that price plus a few cents. This in turn forces the other ISPs to lower their prices too and again nobody has a useful margin again.
However the sad thing is no matter how low the wholesale price for the ISP will be, there is always one approaching that price plus a few cents. This in turn forces the other ISPs to lower their prices too and again nobody has a useful margin again.
Perhaps its time to rise the price again! ;-)
Pascal
Andre Oppermann wrote:
Tobias Goeller wrote:
Andre Oppermann wrote:
100% too. That leaves 17.4% for the ISP to cover all his costs including Internet bandwidth, investments for routers, helpdesk,
I think that's a good point. The ISP has to cover the Bandwith costs... I think my provider is not too happy with me either - I have about 2-4GB / day and pay CHF ~200/month....
That depends on your ISP. If it's Bluewin or Cablecom it doesn't really matter. If it's some other ADSL ISP then yes, you are not the ideal customer. ;-)
ok, in that case I will add some more customers to reach the 20GB/day :-)
Andre Oppermann wrote:
No, it doesn't reflect the real expenses of the ISPs. It's too low and no ISP makes a dime on the standard ADSL Offer at those prices. Swisscom on the other makes a lot of money on the ADSL lines they resell to the ISPs. Approximatly 75% of the enduser price go to Swisscom.
I'd rather say 90 to 95%, if you allow a reasonable overbooking rate on the backhaul.
And don't forget the ISP has to pay the VAT out of the 100% too. That leaves 17.4% for the ISP to cover all his costs including Internet bandwidth, investments for routers, helpdesk, admin, billing and so on... Consider yourself lucky if you make two or three bucks per subscriber and month.
FULLACK.
F.
-
Alexis Caceda -
Andre Oppermann -
Fredy Kuenzler -
Jean-Pierre Schwickerath -
Jeroen Massar -
Matthias Hertzog -
Nik Hug -
Pascal Gloor -
Tobias Goeller -
ueli heuer